And again, I await links to studies, documents, research, or some sort of evidence more than simply your opinion.

Its not opinion; I posted proof; the forefather of the genre, discussing the genre's core ideology from the time of its birth. You are being ignorant for the sake of being a contrarian.

No, you did not post proof, simply claimed what Geezer Butler said while not linking to any sort of publication, interview, video, media, or any sort of source what-so-ever on the topic. Not even snag a quote of his from BrainyQuote or similar sites. Hell, you didnt even link something like say ...



In fact, after the last several minutes of bouncing around the net I'm finding next to nothing in regards to it as well. There's a few scraps of Geezer quotes pasted on a few websites, and the random one in someones signature here and there on various metal forums. But I don't see any articles or books or columns or videos that have Geezer Butler saying what sounds arent 'allowed' to be metal. In fact I'm not finding much at all from actual metal bands and artists on the subject of 'true metal' or 'posuers' or speaking out against certain types of sounds in music... most of that sort of stuff seems only to be in the forum of message board users, and if I'd have to guess 90% of them weren't even around in the 70s and 80s to be subject matter experts. But I'll be sure to post any information I do find (unless I get bored and go start some dinner) speaking on either side of the conversation.

Good metal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvENCRNKCQo

Bad metal (but still metal):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN8p8lkkC3M

Good, but not metal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV4aL9f6Y98

Bad, still not metal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKK3qjZVMgs

I'm done discussing with you, because you are being ignorant. You have absolutely 0 knowledge of the genre or its core ideologies, and therefore your opinion holds no weight. I don't even know why I engaged you in such trolling.

Heres a few Geezer Butler interviews. (According to the title they're from 1982, 1989, 1992)

The first one he mentions the first time they started playing metal instead of the 12 bar blues sound they had been playing previously. When the reporter asks how they got that sound he mentions playing as loud as you could, and the reasons for the the riffs sound so heavy, but there's no mention of rebelling against the poppy or flowery sounds.

The second one he talks for a second on the content of the songs because the reporter was asking questions about the satanic messages and references in the music. Geezer mentions how most of their songs were about stopping war and stuff, and how they touched on the satanic topic because they wanted people to be aware of it.

Here's an interview from 1992.

This one started off looking like it might support your claim but then sorta turned around. At the beginning Geezer mentioned "we were sort of tired of hearing songs about love and all that" in response to the question from the interviewer's question "Everyone is signing about love and flowers and you decided to sing about the dark side of life...why?". Geezer talks about writing their own heavy lyrics to pair with Tony's heavy riffs and that while most bands were doing soul and disco sort of music they were more into the blues style music so they would go to blues clubs. They mentioned that they went to Germany because there wasnt a lot of clubs that they could play their style of music but they never mention any sort of "death to pop or flowery music."

It was during their tour through Germany that they changed the name of the band from Earth, and Tony's own words completely contradict what you said above about the name change. At 1:45 in the video the interviewer asks them about the name change and Tony explains that there was another band named Earth and that they were mistakenly booked to a show for them. Tony in fact mentions that the other other band Earth was a Pop band, and though he sorta chuckles about it he doesn't speak out at all against pop music.

So far all the interviews they talk about the change from the blues music that they had previously played to the louder and harder metal music, and while they talk about it they mention the joy of seeing people react to the new sound and the joy of playing their own music and enjoying it... but there has been zero mention so far of the speaking out or putting down other types of music. Even when they mention music that isnt their style (pop, soul, disco, and funk mentioned so far) they say that its not their style so they simple went and created their own, but they in no way condemn or put down any of those sorts of music.

Yeah, this is just really dumb. If you are a supposed expert in something you need to be able to explain basic concepts for people who you don't think understand it. Otherwise you don't speak on the subjects because you aren't knowledgeable enough to do so. So, either you take time to defend your position to prove somebody is wrong, or you don't start in the first place. If BH doesn't know anything about metal, help explain it to him in a way he can learn it or at least learn your point of view. All this does is show that you're actually not as smart as you've been letting on.

I found this interview from 1989 pretty interesting and amusing actually.

It features both Ozzy and Geezer talking about the bands origins and such and that Geezer mostly played blues while Ozzy was playing soul. They ended up meeting and playing in blues clubs and pulling all nighters and such. Ozzy talks about the switch to playing blues because he was expected to sit still and be less energetic and bouncing around than he was used to while on stage. Ozzy mentions that when it comes to lyrics the reason that they featured such dark and heavy lyrics is because that is the sort of music that they were being put to and that you wouldn't put say, a love song, that that sort of heaviness.

But then at the 2:20 things get quiet a bit more interesting. Ozzy mentions that he doesnt even listen to that much metal, and that mostly listens to things like Peter Gabriel though he does like Guns and Roses. Afterwards he starts mentioning the craziness of the expanding subgenres of metal: "A lot of these american metal...I mean...everything is under the thing of being metal and the way they perceive it now is that if you've got long hair, a guitar, and tight spandex pants that you're metal...and thats not the case. Because its getting so... they're starting with Speed Metal, Death Metal, Gay? Metal, you know...Whatever Metal... and all different aspects of the one thing it gets so confusing for me I dont know what the blood hell its all about."

Unfortunately at this point the youtube clip ends, but I'm quite interested in seeing where the conversation goes from here. I'm looking for the rest of the clip, so if anyone seen it, or finds it please do link it.

This is an awesome track and should not get buried due to the metal conversation. Currently on mobile and therefore will be brief, but you should definitely link more somgs from the album.

Beck is great. He basically takes any genre of music he wants and makes it his own. However, this genre is not something I'm really interested in which makes it less compelling for me. I was behind the dance punk, surf rock, lo-fi, anti-folk, alternative hip-hop but the alternative folk country thing just doesn't do much for me. Maybe I'll give it another listen through and another chance. I expect a lot from a Beck album and perhaps my expectations didn't line up to what he was trying to accomplish.

You comment above reminds I have another clip that ill link tommorow, regarding when a musician does something outside what people are expecting of him/then.

Well, the expected of Beck is that he does the unexpected but I don't think country folk is interesting or new.

Beck should do some folk acoustic frontier trip-hop. Haha.

Like the Bastion sound track.

What really strikes me about this release is that it plays like a Floyd or Beatles album. You listen all the way through and are struck by the change in texture and tone of songs and progression along with innovative signatures and unexpected lyric all seemingly tied together with a subconscious theme.

It's **** genius!!!

Edit: It also struck me last night during my sixth listen that if I had to define the style for publication I would be compelled to equate it to a marriage between Wilco and The Fireman.
Weird, but true.

Here's another one.

And one more.

Now go get it, partake of your chosen substance and listen to it all the way through.
My work here is done.

Heard it on the radio on the way home from dinner, now its gonna be in my head on night...heh