When I go down, I hope you know I'm taking you with me. I can only presume I will see you six forums under, in whatever heavenly place the host saw fit to set aside for us.
OOC: this is hysterical hahahahaha
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"In all fairness that probably is a sight that would make you stop and reevaluate your life choices." ~ Garren_Windspear
If you guys want my suspects list, keep me alive. If you don't, then lynch me.
alt, is this statement supposed to be a threat or a bargain? If you are town, then you should post your reads even if you are getting lynched. So really, explain this?
Joined: Sep 23, 2013 Posts: 6317 Location: New York
OOC: do we have to unvote to vote? I didn't unvote shock to vote alt. Also, this is my birthday weekend, and I'm traveling out of state and may not be able to post consistently again until Tuesday. I'll try to post from my phone if I can.
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"In all fairness that probably is a sight that would make you stop and reevaluate your life choices." ~ Garren_Windspear
The more I think about it, the more I don't see how saying you have suspects but not posting them can be anything but a scum move.
I'll list mine.
Alt - you are now on the top of my list Freddeh - I understand the V/LA thing from now, but you've not really contributed before that. I'm inclined to keep you around another day and see if your posts get better.
If Alt flips mafia, as expected. Shock looks more like mafia SE looks more like mafia (for the whole "you passed the trap" thing) I look like mafia (since I was on his list of least suspicious people)
If he flips town, then, we need to look at the suspects that he (finally) posted - being CK/Confused/Rstnme/Freddeh (well...rstnme is not a late post).
Either way, with the little information we have now:
Vote: Alt
Fake edit - Rstnme, it's helpful to the mod if you unvote first, so he knows that the vote was already on someone else and needs to be moved, rather than added.
If Alt is really Mafia, he made some of the worst Mafia moves I've seen in the (3) games I've looked at so far. Which is really weird, since he's one of the most experienced players in this game.
That said, I want to point out that, in the scenario that we don't lynch Alt, he's probably dead by night. Otherwise, it's pretty much granted that Alt is Mafia if he survives the night.
Another thing: I'm seeing a lot of people ganging up on Alt because he said we should spare him to get his reads, despite the fact that he just did it.
I'll vote later today, after another session of reading.
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Yes, I'm from Brazil and no, I'm not an annoying ****.
Fake edit - Rstnme, it's helpful to the mod if you unvote first, so he knows that the vote was already on someone else and needs to be moved, rather than added.
OOC: Thanks!
Unvote: Shockwave Vote: altimis
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"In all fairness that probably is a sight that would make you stop and reevaluate your life choices." ~ Garren_Windspear
If Alt is really Mafia, he made some of the worst Mafia moves I've seen in the (3) games I've looked at so far. Which is really weird, since he's one of the most experienced players in this game.
That said, I want to point out that, in the scenario that we don't lynch Alt, he's probably dead by night. Otherwise, it's pretty much granted that Alt is Mafia if he survives the night.
Another thing: I'm seeing a lot of people ganging up on Alt because he said we should spare him to get his reads, despite the fact that he just did it.
I'll vote later today, after another session of reading.
Well...he did, eventually, post his list, but, after he was called out for it. Either way, it seems like a scum move to me that he tried to correct after the fact.
On the flip side (If Alt is really Mafia, he made some of the worst Mafia moves I've seen) if he's really town, he's made some pretty bad town moves as well.
Check again. My summary says for this vote, the vote this day. In one instance. In this one vote there are four scenarios. Two where people vote for me; two where people vote for rstnme. For each person, there are two scenarios. One where that person was town; one where that person was mafia.
So reread my post, in no instance did I say both are mafia. It could be true, it could be false; we won't and can't know with this single vote (thus the reason I didn't mention it).
I did say that if I am lynched and turn up mafia, that you keep rstnme who has done not much else than argue with me. I did also say that if you lynch rstnme and he came up mafia, that you have kept me alive. I have been actually doing things and taking notes.
Then I asked which of those two scenarios is better?
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quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess. CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.
Ooff these posts require more than my stupid mobile.
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quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess. CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.
If you guys want my suspects list, keep me alive. If you don't, then lynch me.
alt, is this statement supposed to be a threat or a bargain? If you are town, then you should post your reads even if you are getting lynched. So really, explain this?
First of all, ANYBODY just reading that post now is detrimental to town. Secondly, DUH. Townies want their opinions heard. Now, I also want to survive (I prefer being on the winning team as opposed to slightly underneath the winning team). So if you want my opinions, I better survive. This was to try and get people to back off. I had every intention of posting my reads had my name come up more than three times. Like I said, none of you can prove that. Thirdly, why does everyone need information spoon-fed to them? The more that is public, the more that the mafia has to build their defenses with. If I accuse squinty of posting to little, he's gonna start posting more. If I accuse NAME, of doing SOMETHING; they're gonna stop doing that. So NO, I'm not going to make all my reads public unless absolutely necessary. Fourthly, it feels SO GOOD to be able to quote things again...
OOC: do we have to unvote to vote? I didn't unvote shock to vote alt. Also, this is my birthday weekend, and I'm traveling out of state and may not be able to post consistently again until Tuesday. I'll try to post from my phone if I can.
Yes (normally). But I certainly wasn't going to tell you that
Well...he did, eventually, post his list, but, after he was called out for it. Either way, it seems like a scum move to me that he tried to correct after the fact.
On the flip side (If Alt is really Mafia, he made some of the worst Mafia moves I've seen) if he's really town, he's made some pretty bad town moves as well.
Who called me out on it? Nobody. You could argue Cereal Killer, but as I have already mentioned I suspect he is scum. If so, this is natural because (as I have also already mentioned) he wants to know what he needs to do differently. So I was ignoring him (and rstnme for that matter). In short, if I think you are scum I'm not going to tell you why; if I don't think you're scum I will explain my reasoning. Look at my test. I had no reason to vote for squinty. I voted for him to see his response, he asked and I answered. Look at rstnme, I had no reason to suspect him (again I was testing for confused). I merely placed him at the top of my suspect list. He wanted answers, but because I was in the middle of the test I refused to answer. I told him I would reveal so later. He and cereal killer pounced on me for that which I found rather scummy. And have been persistently posting against me since then. If any of your recall this...
The above, coupled with rst's point in that you skipped his actual first response to your accusation and your "reluctant compliance" stance to Shock's proposed mass claim, make me feel you are an adequate Day 1 lynch candidate. Shall you defend yourself now?
I ignored the ACTUAL first response, because I didn't find that response scummy. Again, if you read my posts you'll have figured that out. "Here are all the posts I'm referencing..." not here are all the posts. I could go through all of them, but most of them were jokes.
I honestly didn't think his first post was scummy, but again was in the middle of the test, and chose not to answer. He became scummy afterwards as he continuously devalued many (if not all) of my claims. Cereal Killer too for that matter.
Your top suspect is rstnme but you chose to target your test against someone you might as well have chosen at random.Your interaction with s_e feels like you guys are doing an act. However, I am more curious to know why didn't you vote/test rstnme in the first place?
Because there's more to it than that.
On a slightly related note, how about your defense? I've heard from everyone except you really. We got a little bit from you a while ago but that was it.
HAH! I finally fixed that freaking tag!
I made a joke by inserting random death to town phrases in rstnme's posts. Cereal killer has been hounding me about that for a while.
It was also very sweet of rstnme to quote me out of context after someone had already misunderstood what I was saying...
My thought process is along a similar line as Rsts, I was reading through page 2 and thought that Altimis was putting out too many 'fake' scumhunting techniques (the 'trap' on SE, posting reads on a couple people and then asking what others thought about them, etc), and just generally caring a bit too much about what others think of HIM, instead of what he thinks of others.
I've read your posts. They go from simply saying rst has displayed suspicious behavior, with no examples given. To saying he's aggressive, with no examples given. To saying he was less calm than squinty, despite multiple posts conveying the exact same message that squinty conveyed with additional reactions to your refusal to give any sort of details, which is divergent in your behavior with squinty on your part and would require divergence on rst's. You have yet to show rst either being irrational or aggressive, so your posts amount to baseless arguments thrown into the wind to see how far they will carry themselves, which is, again, scummy.
Alt could be getting agitated because he's desperate to not be taken out first round, which to me only a mafia or a significant power role would be that concerned. I mean it sucks to be out of the game, but a vanilla I dont feel would get so desperate because they're at least furthering the game, day 1.
On the other hand, CK is winding him up in his approach. Which could be incidental, or could be on purpose to push alt in a corner and have people focus on him.
But mostly the other point. If alt sticks to the 'Im done posting, work it out yourselves' route he's implying is coming, then I am pro lynching him.
If you include me, then that adds up to 4 people that have some problem with alt's posts, which I assume equates "several." The people who have responded that I might be scum as a result are you, who didn't really post during this exchange (or very little--I don't remember), and squinty_eyes, who I implied could be scum. The only other person I called scum was Shock, and that was a joke. As much as you can say admitting to posting something arbitrary is scummy, it's pretty much a blatant fact. I didn't switch to a "serious" vote on alt until after he has relentlessly pursued me as scum, revealing a stark contrast to how he treated squinty. That shift in behavior means something, and it's the crux of the issue here. You either believe alt's pursuit of me is justified by my asking him to explain himself, or you believe that his pursuit is way too aggressive and out of the blue.
Alternatively, he's trying to get me lynched because I posted a photo of a murderous chef. In which case, he loses points for not acknowledging irony.
Alternatively, he's trying to get me lynched instead of him because he doesn't want to die day 1.
Either way, you haven't clarified why you sided with him. And this whole "referencing the other game(s)" thing strikes me as irrelevant, because it's just as easily to contextualize as it is to warp context.
I'm sure everyone remembers that post.
I personally find it suspicious that Elijin finds flaws in my reads. I post the potential results (facts might I add) of today's lynch and I'm scummy because he misread it. He seems to "misread" a lot of my posts too. He has become suspicious to me (not that any of you care at this point). After I said I'm done arguing. Which I also said unless something new comes up...
You just presented a summary that if both of you came up mafia, that its be less harmful for town that rst died, because you're hunting. But in that theoretical, you'd be leading us away from targets. If you pass that off as sound logic, I think we can live without your hunting skills.
I felt my summary was rather clear. There are two people and with today's vote we can have four possible outcomes 1) I am lynched and I am mafia. 2) I am lynched and I am town. 3) rstnme is lynched and he is mafia. 4) rstnme is lynched and he is town.
Case 1: You guys remove one mafia from the picture. Case 2: You guys remove a very active player from thew town. You probably look at who I thought was suspicious, but you also lose a big tester. Case 3: You guys remove a mafia from the picture. You are left with a player who is actively participating in the game. Case 4: You guys removed a less-active player from the game, and will probably look at me next.
As I pointed out, which of the scenarios is worse? If you lynch me and are wrong you are worse off than if you lynch rstnme and are wrong.
Please point out the flaws in that argument...
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quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess. CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.
Secondly, DUH. Townies want their opinions heard. Now, I also want to survive (I prefer being on the winning team as opposed to slightly underneath the winning team). So if you want my opinions, I better survive. This was to try and get people to back off. I had every intention of posting my reads had my name come up more than three times. Like I said, none of you can prove that.
Of course, I find one. There used to be a sentence before the DUH where I was saying (not that you can prove this), but I was going to reveal my reads anyways... I'm sure you get the jist anyways.
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quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess. CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.
Joined: Sep 23, 2013 Posts: 6317 Location: New York
I'm OK with being lynched if you're lynched and turn up town.
The giant hole in your argument is that I only continued posting at you because you specifically refused to post your reasoning. I think it's only reasonable to ask someone to put some clout behind their accusations. You refused, and called me scummy instead, hence this back-and-forth. In a bar scenario, you basically rabbit-punched me, and I turned around and said "What the hell did you do that for?" and you snickered and ignored me. It's either poor form or just... bizarre.
Add to that, you not only refused to justify your accusation, you're now literally saying you shouldn't have, and won't in the future. And while I find all of this incredibly entertaining, I'm not sure how you can logically argue that actively holding back justified accusations while stirring up this much drama is good for the town.
Also, I didn't quote you in my previous post to NeoSilk. I think that may have been a typo? As the spoiler in your post doesn't show a single period from you. Anyway, it's difficult to empathize with someone who claims they're being misunderstood while they're also saying they're withholding their, as you say, "facts."
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"In all fairness that probably is a sight that would make you stop and reevaluate your life choices." ~ Garren_Windspear
A - Never addressed the possibility that you're both mafia, throwing each other under the bus to secure a solid position for the survivor, which if your list of all possible outcomes was really so factual, why?
B - Immediately tried to move suspicion to me for calling you out on your terrible summary.
At best you're a town who's ego has gotten the better of him, at worst a scum trying to cover your misstep.
Also, I didn't quote you in my previous post to NeoSilk. I think that may have been a typo? As the spoiler in your post doesn't show a single period from you. Anyway, it's difficult to empathize with someone who claims they're being misunderstood while they're also saying they're withholding their, as you say, "facts."
You post someone's confusion to a post that I already clarified without posting my clarification. That is what I meant by quoting me out of context.
Where did I ever say that I won't justify my accusations? Please, if you're going to make me look bad, do so accurately. I did say...
The more that is public, the more that the mafia has to build their defenses with. If I accuse squinty of posting to little, he's gonna start posting more. If I accuse NAME, of doing SOMETHING; they're gonna stop doing that. So NO, I'm not going to make all my reads public unless absolutely necessary.
This doesn't say I'm never going to help ever. This says AND explains that the more the mafia knows, the worse. That means I won't do what I just did (my big summary) but I'll continue to post. That way the mafia won't have accurate means to defend themselves. If the town needs everything almost literally handed to them, I foresee a town loss. People need to think for themselves. You can listen to other people, but you don't do something merely because someone else is doing it.
A - Never addressed the possibility that you're both mafia, throwing each other under the bus to secure a solid position for the survivor, which if your list of all possible outcomes was really so factual, why?
B - Immediately tried to move suspicion to me for calling you out on your terrible summary.
At best you're a town who's ego has gotten the better of him, at worst a scum trying to cover your misstep.
Tell me how, with this day's lynch, we can discover BOTH of our (rstnme and me) alignments and I will tell you how that factors into my summary. As I have posted twice already, there are only four possible outcomes coming from today's lynch (two outcomes by the look of it). If you'd like to make it eight outcomes, by all means I can do that. But that is over-complicating the game. I apologize for drawing the line at a much more manageable four possible outcomes. There are actually 4096 possible outcomes based on todays lynch. Each person is either mafia or town (the number goes down due to only so many people being able to be mafia etc) That is only considering alignments, when you start considering roles as well the number grows from there. Now, considering that, I stopped at four as with todays lynch you are going to find out a single alignment. Then somebody (barring a doctor) will die. You will be down two players, a townie and whatever alignment I turn out to be.
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quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess. CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.
Ugh math... Once I'm lynched the number will actually be 2048 not 4096 (because my alignment will already be known so it can't be the other).
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quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess. CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.
You know, I was going to respond to a bunch of stuff, but Eli has hit the nail on the head for me. While you (Alt) are trying to say he's misrepping your statement as a "both" situation, that's really irrelevant. All we need to look at is the statement, "if you kill me, and I am mafia; town is worse off [...]. The reason, I'm actively hunting." Rst and his alignment are irrelevant to this logical trainwreck. If we kill you and you're mafia, town is better off because they've removed a mafia aligned player that's actively trying to distract from actual scumhunting. It doesn't matter if Rst is your buddy or not, because scum doesn't scum hunt. They pretend while trying to mislead the town. At the base of it I think this is the point Eli was making when he said your logic was horribad.
Frankly I'm starting to notice a pattern where Alt makes overly broad statements and then tries to fill in the details later, as people continually point out why his broad statements are wrong. The problem is Alt doesn't just try to clarify what he meant, but instead insists that the detailed meaning was spelled out, when it clearly wasn't and insists he's being persecuted by scum for it.
His current behavior goes against one of the fundamentals of the game, that being that town needs information to win. You cannot simply J'accuse somebody and expect to garner on a lynch on them. You cannot simply expect people to see whatever is you see either. If it was that obvious, more people than you would probably have caught it the first time. Additionally Alt is guilty of what I refer as reaction troll trapping. This is where a player trolls players until he elicits a response from the trolling. The player will then claim the trollee is scum for responding the trolling, however, this trap plays on people being people and has nothing to do with alignment. I have seen these traps used countless times but I have never seen them catch scum. That is not an exaggeration.
Alt, you're at L-1. Anything you want to claim at this juncture?
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FYI man, alright. You could sit at home, and do like absolutely nothing, and your name goes through like 17 computers a day. 1984? Yeah right, man. That's a typo. Orwell is here now. He's livin' large. We have no names, man. No names. We are nameless!
Joined: Oct 30, 2013 Posts: 7305 Location: England
Okay just going to post some random thoughts and why I voted Altimis. This is current as off the last post I made but honestly nothing that has been said since has really altered anything.
altimis Basically I see altimis as either scum who sees he's been caught out and is madly trying to shift focus onto the next most suspicious person (in this case rstnme) or he is town who is really indignant about being called scum. I'm inclines to believe the former for a couple of reason; mostly because I'm not buying the 'everything I do is backed up with facts' spiel your selling. Also twice now you've flat out said 'keep me alive and I will give you my thoughts' which is just an awful argument; yeah you can hand-wave the most recent one as trying to buy survival but what did the previous one do to help anyone? I also dislike your 'I'll tell you all who my suspects are once you've all told me who you suspect' lines. Because that doesn't look evasive at all. Plus if you are lynched and do turn up town well that pretty much confirms my suspicious about who else is scum. Effectively your more useful to me dead than you are alive. Those are the breaks.
Freddeh Strong scum leaning. It not the fact that you have only made two posts it's that both sent up flags on my radar. You ended you first one with a threat to Shockwave (akin to 'stop going on about the massclaim thing or I'll vote for ya') which just annoyed me on a personal level. The second you turned up and told everyone to stop talking and just vote. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't discussion the whole point of this little game; the more information out there the easier it is to work out who is what, no? If you aren't scum you certainly haven't said anything to give me that impression.
Shockwave So you turn up, make the massclaim idea, get a ton of flak for it and disappear. I don't blame you of course - that little action effectively made you favourite for lynching for a minute there but it did get people talking. So was it the action of a town trying to get people to start showing their hands a little or the actions of a goblin making an poor early play and then hiding out until suspicion fell on someone new? Personally I'm leaning town with ya. Regardless of intention that little stunt started people talking and I'm willing to give you a little lee-way for that.
I've got very slight leans on Neosilk, Squinty_Eyes and Cereal_Killer as well but nothing I'd back up; just little suspicions. As well as that, as I mentioned above, I got a pretty good idea on the identities of a few scum but I need Altimis to die to confirm them. Sorry about that pal.
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Welcome! I'm Garren and I'll be your designated villain for the evening.
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