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 Post subject: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:35 am 
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Salutations!

Submitted for the approval of the Midnight Society, please find below a new story, titled "Reclamation."

This is my fourth Beryl story, and the events it depicts take place shortly after those in "To Walk Across Fire." My usual caveat applies - it isn't strictly necessary to have read the previous Beryl stories in order to read this one, but doing so will provide some context for the goings-on here.

I have a couple notes about the story, but since they dip a toe into Spoiler Lake, I will tuck them down below.

Anyway, I enjoyed working on this piece, and I hope readers will find something here to enjoy as well. As ever, your comments and criticisms are more than welcome.

Reclamation

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:25 am 
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Just a couple quick notes and tips-of-the-cap, for anyone interested.

Spoiler

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:09 am 
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That was pretty nice. I didn't find any typos or writing flaws, but I do have to ask: How did/does Astria know about planeswalkers? Is this a commonly known thing on her home plane? Maybe known among the high priestess council or whatever she's a part of? She just comes to the conclusion far too quickly to be smooth. I think it begs some expansion, even if it's just in this story's sequel (which I'm hoping you're writing).

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:13 pm 
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@ Lord Luna - Many thanks for the read. I hope you enjoyed the story.

Your question is a good one. Without putting too many cards on the table just now, I'll say that planeswalkers have visited Astria/Beryl's home in the past. As the scion of one of the major aristocratic families, and as a pretty formidable sorceress in her own right, Astria would have some familiarity with those stories. While Astria has plenty of faults, ignorance of history would not be one of them. Her background knowledge would probably include that (a) other planes do exist and that (b) a rare few people can travel between them, albeit not the actual mechanics of how something like that would work.

As you noted, she rolls with the punch that Beryl has pierced the veil pretty well, and I think that's for a pair of reasons. First, the initial shock she has at this discovery is almost immediately supplanted by the question of whether and how she can turn it to her advantage. Astria's bent of mind is almost ruthlessly practical.

Second, recent events have given her a reason to be thinking about planeswalkers, which ties in to your note about expansion in future stories. To crib a trope from the James Bond canon: Astria and Beryl will return in [NAME OF FUTURE STORY REDACTED].

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:57 pm 
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Just dropping in to say sorry, I had completely forgotten this was here. This is about to become a very busy week, and I haven't had time to even glance at Legacies yet, but I will try to get to this soon, if possible.


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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:24 pm 
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@ Raven - No rush, sir. Whenever you may get around to it.

Although, I am getting dangerously close to pulling an Al Haig over on Flavor-of-the-Week and issuing myself a prompt, because I have a pretty good streak going at the moment and I can't stand the thought of the '72 Dolphins popping champagne corks over in AF&S.

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:28 pm 
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@ Raven - No rush, sir. Whenever you may get around to it.

Although, I am getting dangerously close to pulling an Al Haig over on Flavor-of-the-Week and issuing myself a prompt, because I have a pretty good streak going at the moment and I can't stand the thought of the '72 Dolphins popping champagne corks over in AF&S.

Oh, yeah, I did forget about that this week, didn't I? Dang real life. One minute here...


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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:19 pm 
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Phew! I can stop breathing into a paper bag now.

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:18 am 
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As I promised!
Spoiler

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:35 am 
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I've already discussed this story with OL via PM, so I'll just respond to Barinellos' comments. :)

Spoiler

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:58 am 
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I've already discussed this story with OL via PM, so I'll just respond to Barinellos' comments. :)

Spoiler

Strangely managed to miss that one. Only read Hermit's Burden and A bet on Kindness.

Quote:
Anyway, what I'm getting at is that Fisco supplies her with an immediate method of contacting him - his signature coin. If Beryl received information indicating this, it is very likely that she would contact Aloise, whom she has decided is trustworthy. (See: A Bet on Kindness )


Honestly, part of this also runs towards the fact that Fisco is getting very busy too. If I'm not mistaken, he's getting drawn into a very very complex interlay of characters on Raven's stories, so it's more than just Aloise. I worry about Fisco getting stretched too thin or becoming just a little ubiquitous.
But I'll step back. Like I said, not my characters so not my place.

Quote:
@Beryl and Astria: Though I do agree that Beryl may need more of a presence, I absolutely adored Astria in this piece. She's very atypical for the role - I expected her to be all machination and no emotion, but instead, she's just as emotionally motivated as you would expect any woman to be. Her dislike of Beryl is visceral and tangible, and for good reason. Since the story is told from Astria's point of view, it would be likely that she seems more animated. I hesitate to think of her as playing a passive role in this exchange, however.

If anything, Beryl is the passive one, despite initiating the scene, as Astria continually aggrieves, accuses, and then eventually, accepts. Beryl's trying to prove a point by staying calm and being diplomatic. Astria's just angry that her sister has made her life difficult.

Mostly I have no problem with Astria aside from those small notes. It isn't so much about her as it is the scene's interplay in terms of scenery. Beryl sitting down is the problem, not Astria sitting down. Astria is fine as she is, but Beryl's position in the power dynamic would be better served if she were standing. Astria already has the passive role in this, she's the one who is being approached. But there in is the thing too, in that just because you have the passive role doesn't mean you aren't less animated than the one in the stronger position.

But Beryl honestly comes across a little robotic since she's staying too calm for the interaction. But that can be fixed pretty easily, even if she doesn't stand up. She just needs more "brow furrowed" or "with a chuckles".

Quote:
@Aloise's further involvement and crossing the streams: Yes! I want this very much, and keep in mind that Aloise's timeline is flexible, and she is well traveled enough, to accommodate several consecutive stories, even if they have nothing to do with one another. I want her to meet different shades of characters - I want her to meet Ellia's and Kirsh's and pyromancers and beast mages. She thrives in a setting where she is learning something new about herself or others, and she is motivated by altruism.

I'm molding her to serve a purpose, of course. She's important to Fisco's arc, but she's also a whole lot more than that. While I'll be tying down some large swaths of her time, she is, at her heart, an explorer. She won't stay in one place for long. Feel free to take her out and show her something wonderful. :D

I'll respond to this elsewhere since it has a lot less to draw from in OL's story.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:11 pm 
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Ack - what a crummy time for my home internet to break.

Going to take my best shot at catching up with all the comments.

@ Barinellos - First of all, many thanks for the read.

Spoiler


@ Ruwin - (Who again gets a special thanks for commenting on the early draft when I asked him to vet Aloise and Fisco's involvement):

Spoiler

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:39 pm 
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I'll go tell Keeper to update his shipping wall with "Ruwin <3 OL"



Quote:
... Gooootta say that Beryl is being a little supervillain here. The sitting in the dark room waiting thing is just not a good fit for her. The waiting isn't that big a deal, but it's the voice in the darkness that pushes it over the edge. You can retain the surprise just by having her tucked away in a lit room. I do get that you want the stand off and action to jump off the confrontation, but it really puts Beryl in a negative light that I think detracts from a lot of it. Too much like what Astria would be seen doing.

As the scene goes on, I realize that there's something very wrong with the scene's dynamic. Having both of them seated makes them equal, but having Beryl sitting from the start causes some problems. Honestly, I think given the way the scene is playing out, Beryl needs to be on her feet. It matches the personality differences between the two as well, but you need Beryl in the more active position. Having Astria seated suits her for two reasons. One it lets her make the proclamation that she's unconcerned, but it also makes her the passive participant, which is the weaker of the two.


This is somewhat on purpose, and I'll try to explain my thinking.

Basically, this is a conversation-slash-confrontation which Beryl has been wanting to have with Astria, in one form or another, for twenty years. She's had more than two-thirds of her life to imagine how this would go, to try to rehearse what she wants to say, to try to plan what she wants to do, to try to picture how Astria will react. And, for most of her life, her vision for how this meeting plays out would probably have been very adversarial - violent, even. I can't remember it exactly, but there's a line from (I think) "A Bet On Kindness" where Beryl tells Aloise that she's worried about seeing Astria because (roughly) "I hate her too much to forgive her but I love her too much to want to hurt her, and if I see her now, I think I will hurt her."

For a long time, Beryl's great fear has been that, when she becomes emotional, she will wind up hurting the people around her, and that would have colored the way she imagined confronting her sister.

Beryl initiates this meeting now because she believes she has changed. She's more self-aware. She thinks she understands Astria better, and she thinks she understands herself better. She has bought into awareness and acceptance, and she thinks that even if Astria tries to provoke her, even if she feels her own emotions start to surge, she won't be overmastered by them.

But, while Beryl is genuinely more (for lack of a better term) Zen-like than before, this is a new thing for her, and I believe it is very effortful. She can surf her emotional waves, and she can focus on awareness and acceptance, but it takes work. She has to actively try to maintain that frame of mind. And that's why she's sitting there, in the dark - I imagine even with her eyes closed until Astria comes in the door. She's trying to focus, trying to center herself, trying to visualize a conversation with her sister that doesn't center around revenge, or turnabout, or score-settling, but instead seeks understanding. That's a big rewrite on the script she's had in her head for twenty years, and she needs real focus and effort to remember her new lines.

And this extends into the conversation. She doesn't emote as much as she otherwise might, or even move around as much as she otherwise might, because she's constantly working to stay in the moment and to be aware of her own feelings. (She does slip at times, like when Astria insults her by asking how she got in, and draws a visibly emotional reaction in the process.) And I think that one of the reasons she remains seated for as long as she does is because it's a learned remnant of the power dynamic between her and her sister. Beryl isn't used to being the one on top, or the one initiating action. She's used to Astria standing over her, and I think that her mental effort is sufficiently maxed-out on the talking portion of things that she's just defaulting to that mode of interaction.

Now, with all that being said, it doesn't mean I'm right to have written things this way, and I appreciate your suggestions. I'll need to let them turn over in my head for a while to see if anything shakes out.

I'm going to preface this with two statements:
  1. That this is by no means a confrontation or criticism of you, just communicating some points I've read about writing.
  2. That I don't necessarily see an issue in the actions or confrontation in itself (though maybe a few lines did seem a little strange; I can't remember them offhand) and still quite enjoy it.

All that is fine and dandy to you, but you don't communicate any of that to us, your readers. You, being the author, are privy to information that we do not know, and it is your responsibility to communicate those notions, however vague, to us through your writing. In essence, you cannot use this as a legitimate argument, especially since this is largely a dialogue-driven piece. If, in the work, more information was conveyed by their movements, emotions, or thoughts, then you could say "yeah, I didn't include information I had in my head, I should have," but in this case most of the piece is carried by the dialogue, which means you would have to have the characters actually say some of these things.




Now, I have to say that between your reply to me and Barinellos's critique, that the reaction to Beryl's planeswalker status is going to stay an issue until we see more of this world. We've seen plausible deniability with Beryl's first story, only having included Beryl, Astria, and Astria's thug, but in order to maintain this as an issue in this story you'll need to flesh out the world at least a bit in the next story.

Your other option is to alter Astria's reaction slightly, such as: an unbelieving/exasperated "You're a planeswalker?" (preferably with a loss of breath) transitioning to quick eye movements as she thinks how she can use the power followed by a return to the 'pleasant conversation' she was having with Beryl.

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:38 am 
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I'll go tell Keeper to update his shipping wall with "Ruwin <3 OL"

This will be hard to explain to Mrs. Orcish Librarian, if she has any idea what a shipping wall is. Ignorance is bliss!

I'm going to preface this with two statements:
  1. That this is by no means a confrontation or criticism of you, just communicating some points I've read about writing.
  2. That I don't necessarily see an issue in the actions or confrontation in itself (though maybe a few lines did seem a little strange; I can't remember them offhand) and still quite enjoy it.

All that is fine and dandy to you, but you don't communicate any of that to us, your readers. You, being the author, are privy to information that we do not know, and it is your responsibility to communicate those notions, however vague, to us through your writing. In essence, you cannot use this as a legitimate argument, especially since this is largely a dialogue-driven piece. If, in the work, more information was conveyed by their movements, emotions, or thoughts, then you could say "yeah, I didn't include information I had in my head, I should have," but in this case most of the piece is carried by the dialogue, which means you would have to have the characters actually say some of these things.


Oh, absolutely. First off, you should feel free to criticize me and my writing. The whole purpose of getting feedback is that it helps me to do better work than I would otherwise.

I know that I bloviate when I'm talking about the magical goings-on inside my own head. My intent in doing so is never to say "here's what you morons failed to realize when reading my perfect story" - it's just to make explicit my inside baseball, for the exact reason you noted. When there are discrepancies between the context that I take for granted and the reactions of people who don't have the benefit of that context, it calls attention to places in the narrative where what I assume is implicit obviously isn't.

The one addendum I would make to your point is that I'm not always shooting for complete and accurate transmission of authorial intent in the text itself. When I can, I like to leave some space for people to draw their own conclusions about the characters and story, rather than my always saying "this is why character X did what he did, or this is how event Y came to pass." I may have my own views on X and Y, but I don't always want my views to crowd out the reader's.

So, when I say in a note as opposed to in the story that I assume Beryl thinks X, Y, or Z, or that I ascribe motivations A, B, and C to Astria, I'm just sharing my own feelings. I'm not saying that my interpretation is the only correct one.

Again, with that being said, when people are drawing markedly different conclusions than I am about things which I assume are essential to the plot, then that's a big red flag, because it means that something which I had assumed was clear and unambiguous is neither. And that can and does happen, to be sure, which is why I'm always happy to hear everyone's thoughts and reactions.

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:52 am 
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Ugh.. I should not write these posts so late at night. That gobbledygook barely made sense.

Reader's digest version: If Jill St. John reads my story and says to me, "I think Beryl is behaving out of character here," and I say to Jill St. John, "I don't think so, and here's why," I'm not trying to say that Jill St. John is wrong. Given the information available in the story, we may have both reached reasonable conclusions, and the question which I'm left to ponder as the writer is whether and how I want to change the story to steer the reader towards one viewpoint or the other.

In this particular case, I could add more text to explain why I think Beryl acts as she does. Or I could change the text to make her more active, in line with what Barinellos suggested. Or I might decide that I think this is a case where the ambiguity is healthy. My brain is a creaky old machine, and it needs time to turn over these sorts of questions.

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:08 am 
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Ugh.. I should not write these posts so late at night. That gobbledygook barely made sense.

Reader's digest version: If Jill St. John reads my story and says to me, "I think Beryl is behaving out of character here," and I say to Jill St. John, "I don't think so, and here's why," I'm not trying to say that Jill St. John is wrong. Given the information available in the story, we may have both reached reasonable conclusions, and the question which I'm left to ponder as the writer is whether and how I want to change the story to steer the reader towards one viewpoint or the other.

In other words, Death of the Author.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:42 am 
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The Author died from party rocking too hard.

The Author is dead. Long live the Author.

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:08 am 
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Now that I've had a little sleep and have half of a Starbucks Monstrosity sitting comfortably in my tummy (*shoots a glance at the nearby coffee cup* - "Don't worry, buddy, you'll be joining the other half soon"), I'll note that one of the things I enjoy most about writing stories is being surprised. Sometimes I have an initial idea that veers off in a direction which surprises me. Sometimes characters go off-script in a way that surprises me. And sometimes people who read the stories will find things in them that surprise me. Getting to talk about those things afterward is part of the fun.

For example, this little snippet got added to the story in either my last or next-to-last revision:

Quote:
Beryl ran a hand up and down the chair’s velvet-upholstered arms. “I have to say, you have a lot of very nice things in here. This is a very comfortable chair.”


When I put it in, my thinking was that Beryl has been living for over a decade under very spartan conditions - not exactly destitute, mind you, but certainly not comfortable. Knowing that she was sitting there in Astria's room, surrounded by all the trappings of Astria's status and wealth, I thought she probably wouldn't be able to avoid thinking to herself: "These could have been mine. This could have been my life." And I felt like, as much as she is trying to be very Zen, as much as she is trying to rise above emotions like jealousy, she isn't a saint, and she isn't Buddha, and she probably isn't going to be able to resist at least making a little comment.

Now, when Mrs. Orcish Librarian read the story, she took Beryl's remark here to be kind of a threat, like something a shakedown artist would say in a movie: "Nice store you got here. Wouldn't be a shame if something bad were to happen to it?"

I never considered that possible interpretation of this little bit of dialog, but it makes sense. And I could totally see Astria reading it that way. This even sort of dovetails with Barinellos's comment that Beryl reads a little super-villain-ish at the start of the encounter. You can even use Beryl's lack of activity to add to that picture. After all, Blofeld is usually sitting when the captured spy gets hauled before him, and Michael Meyers doesn't run when he's chasing after you.

In my mind, and I think in Beryl's mind, she's being very calm. But it could also be read as menacing, and Astria might well read it that way.

So discussing the story has helped me to see a different, totally-plausible interpretation of events, and that's one of those fun little surprises I was talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:53 am 
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Re: The planeswalking business, that section probably just needs a rewrite.

And we will be learning more about Beryl and Astria's home in the not so distant future. It's been coming out in small drips and drabs, but now that some of the various chessmen are in place, they may start to collide.

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 Post subject: Re: [Story] Reclamation
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:53 pm 
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If you needed more input on the Planeswalker thing, I agree with the others that Astria's reaction comes just a little too quickly, and is internalized a little too quickly, as it's currently written. I like what little we've seen of the world so far, but I have Barinellos's reservation about the actual Magicness of it... although given how shallow it is at the moment, I don't see that as a huge issue. The plane Raven's mentioned a few times is barely developed too but it's only served as a very narrow jumping off point, so that hasn't been a problem.

Oh and speaking of reservations I share with Barinellos, I'm also a bit worried about Fisco getting stretched thin. On the one hand, it makes sense that he's involved in so many different worlds given what his occupation is. On the other hand, it could result in some pretty tangled narrative webs.

Otherwise, I thought this was a solid addition. The only thing that might be done to flesh it out a bit more is to give us a better sense of what the politics ensnaring Astria really are. It wasn't totally clear to me whether or not Astria knew what specific betrayals led up to Beryl burning down a city block, or how much Beryl's story forced her to recalculate what kind of opposition she was facing, so that might be worth at least toying with a bit further. You might even want to consider mentioning something about the rival house(s) during the actual ball. In fact, the more I think about it the more that seems like a logical way of capitalizing on that scene.

But yeah, I like where this is going.


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