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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Kiora's surname "Atua" is being retconned out of existence because it still has cultural importance to the Maori people.

Doug Beyer wrote:
We’ve moved away from Kiora having a last name in official materials. Unknown to us at the time of Kiora’s debut in Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012, the meaning of the word “atua” in Maori (the language of the indigenous people of New Zealand) refers to concepts that some consider sacred in Maori culture. Since “Kiora” already sounds very close to a Maori greeting (“kia ora”), some assumed—reasonably, I think—that the connection to Maori terms was the intent. Given the spiritual significance of the meaning, we felt the name choice was, in retrospect, not appropriate.

I’m sorry about that. We messed up.

So when it came time to create Kiora’s card, we saw an opportunity to change course on her surname, and decided that the best course of action was to drop it altogether.

We often seek inspiration from real-world cultures in the course of dreaming up Magic worlds, and we sometimes look to linguistic phonemes from real-world languages for naming Magic characters. But it’s never our intent to misappropriate or misapply terms or concepts that are foundational to people’s real-world spiritual beliefs. We’re happy whenever Magic can expose players to styles of fantasy that are inspired by mythologies and cultures other than Western fantasy’s traditional roots. But if we learn that any of our worlds, terms, or characters disrespectfully tread on the sincere beliefs of our fellow humans in contemporary, living cultures, we feel it’s important to take steps to correct that as best we can.

That’s why we have chosen not to list a last name for Kiora on her card and in the Born of the Gods Planeswalker’s Guide entry. We also do not intend to refer to Kiora as having a last name in official creative contexts going forward. Her name is Kiora. Thanks!


Interesting.
Thoughts?

For the record, Atuais a Maori word for their Gods.


Last edited by HairlessThoctar on Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:35 pm 
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There's a fine line between respect and pandering. This one, on a personal, gut reaction, doesn't bother me that they dropped. I don't think it detracts from Kiora to not have a surname or to change it, so I'm fine with it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:40 pm 
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Meh

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:10 pm 
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It would have been perfect. The flavor text on Kiora's follower already indicates that she was worshipped as a god by the locals.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:57 pm 
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I'm okay with it being dropped, but for the sake of historical accuracy, I think it should be maintained outside the official channels.
Like or not, they named her that and it still has its place in that location. That won't change unless they release a patch for the game.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:17 pm 
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Was already planning on it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:08 pm 
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So, it's cool if WotC tries to be culturally responsive but you all don't need to be?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:40 pm 
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Um, I guess it depends on how you're understanding what Barinellos said, DS. I don't think it's really the place of curators and historians, which is essentially what we're acting as if we're talking about, say, writing information on Salvation's wiki, to retcon reality. It depends on what context we're talking about but if we're talking about the wiki or something like it? Yeah, that information should stay.

I wouldn't use the full name if I was discussing her character here, though. That'd be a dick move. I don't think anyone's arguing that.

Anyway, I think this is another nice indicator, like lots of things we've heard from Doug and Jeremy of late, that WotC--at least the creative side, don't get me started on MaRo--are cognizant of Magic's diverse fanbase and wider concerns. They're making an effort, and that's cool.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:07 pm 
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It's a very minor change, but they probably could have gotten away without changing it, after all, it feels like pandering.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:15 pm 
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It's a very minor change, but they probably could have gotten away without changing it, after all, it feels like pandering.

See, to me, that was exactly why it didn't feel much like pandering, just because I don't think they got an influx of complaints on the issue, and they (likely) made the choice themselves, because it mattered to them as a team. That was my take, anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:30 pm 
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Last I checked there wasn't much in the way of significant established canon surrounding Kiora, so I don't see that eliminating her last name as being all that big a deal, lorewise.

If it were my decision I might have leaned toward changing it rather than removing it (something about double-named characters usually feels "realer" to me than single-named ones), but that might not have been seen as a viable option here for whatever reason, and it's not like dropping it's really a worse option, just a different one.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:07 pm 
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I can't see any change made in respect for another people's culture, language, or religious beliefs as "pandering".

If the change in question were an addition, to appease a portion of the fan consumer base, then you have "token" characters and such, and I can see that kind of change as "pandering".

I can see why people would get upset over a well-established character suddenly getting a name change; but something like this? This is a self-conscious movement, the same as someone choosing not to use the n-word, a betterment of the brand and the company.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:00 am 
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Last I checked there wasn't much in the way of significant established canon surrounding Kiora, so I don't see that eliminating her last name as being all that big a deal, lorewise.

If it were my decision I might have leaned toward changing it rather than removing it (something about double-named characters usually feels "realer" to me than single-named ones), but that might not have been seen as a viable option here for whatever reason, and it's not like dropping it's really a worse option, just a different one.

That probably would've required a full on retcon whereas with this they can just sort of... decide not to ever use the last name again. It's neater.

I agree though that single names don't have quite the same weight as double-names.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:06 am 
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Last I checked there wasn't much in the way of significant established canon surrounding Kiora, so I don't see that eliminating her last name as being all that big a deal, lorewise.

If it were my decision I might have leaned toward changing it rather than removing it (something about double-named characters usually feels "realer" to me than single-named ones), but that might not have been seen as a viable option here for whatever reason, and it's not like dropping it's really a worse option, just a different one.

That probably would've required a full on retcon whereas with this they can just sort of... decide not to ever use the last name again. It's neater.

I agree though that single names don't have quite the same weight as double-names.
Unless your name is an acronym of your name.
Yes, I am talking to you Mr. of the Hammer.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:19 am 
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...I forgot his name does that.

Right, new favorite Magic character.

He should team up with Will.I.Am who is T.H.E. Hardest Ever.

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...This is probably one of at least the top five dumbest images I ever created for StIT...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:24 am 
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...I forgot his name does that.

Right, new favorite Magic character.

He should team up with Will.I.Am who is T.H.E. Hardest Ever.

You know... we do have a movie coming up and Will IS an actor....

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:27 am 
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Hmmm yes and Venser can be played by Mick Jagger. Really hoping everyone has seen the video for that song by now since it's literally the second best music video ever (the first best of course being Ke$ha's video for "Blow")

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:29 am 
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People need lives. Someone really gon' be offended by this sort of thing?

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Last edited by GobO_Mastergear on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offensive content removed.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:45 am 
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People need lives. Someone really gon' be offended by this sort of thing?

Did you know that volcanoes kill more people per year than they tutor? Fun fact.


Last edited by GobO_Mastergear on Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Continuity purposes.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:48 am 
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People need lives. Someone really gon' be offended by this sort of thing?

Did you know that volcanoes kill more people per year than they tutor? Fun fact.

That's only because so many volcanoes let their teaching licenses lapse. Of course, it's a vicious cycle, their licenses lapse so nobody will hire them and since they won't hire them, they never bother to renew their licenses.

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Last edited by GobO_Mastergear on Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Continuity purposes.


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