That was my inference, Trump created operation warp speed.

I was of the understanding that the Germans (Pfizer) got the vaccine out before any of the companies that were part of the initial Operation Warp Speed. I mean, sure Pfizer joined OWS but it wasn't until after they had the vaccine and sold it to the USA. How did Trump get it out in record speed if the Germans beat him to it?

That was my turn of phrase, not Timh’s.

I have nothing to back that claim up, never did. Like I said, it was just an inference on what Timh actually said, which was a reference to operation warp speed. But I wouldn’t suggest putting my words in his mouth. And if you’re asking me, I was just assuming Timh’s hypothetical to comment on the anti-vax stuff.

Presidents are either accountable for successes and failures under their watch or they aren’t. I notice people play this in an inconsistent way that favours their narrative

I like to get a little more sophisticated and hold presidents accountable only for things they had influence on (even if it’s very small). There are some things that are completely outside a presidents control or influence.

I'm not trying to construct a narrative and I'm not trying to badger DJ about it either, Tym can jump in and help whenever he has time. I was just asking a clarifying question because I was under the impression it was the Germans who came out with a vaccine first not the companies who were doing the warp speed research (which was just an attempt to use words to look better as the European project was named Light Speed, but really are we still keeping count of all the little ways Trump was/is petty).

And not everything is as clear cut as being/not being the responsibility of the sitting president. One of the bullet points on Trumps win column is the increase of wages vs inflation and the increase in the number of jobs. Those were both on an upward trend for 10 years before Covid. So Trump could only claim responsibility for the last 3 years. I think the win column should consist of more than "didn't **** up the upward momentum of previous administrations"

my post wasn't directed at you at all. I think it was originally intended for DJ and then I just went more general in nature.

but it's very much on-topic

Totally fair. I just wanted to point out that you were questioning someone else's possible point, but using my words. And I honestly don't know enough about that point to have an opinion on it. Actually, it seems like you know a lot more than I do, so I'd defer to you on this one.

The point I was making is that Trump did a lot of damage to national beliefs in vaccines. And I guess I'd expand that point: hard to give someone credit for vaccines, when he's directly responsible for a reduction in the belief in vaccines, and frankly I also think he hurt the US's ability to avoid massive spread of Covid (but the latter may be a bit of a stretch).

So what did Musk did about US election?

IDK what did he do about a US election?

Not sure, seems like he is paying people to vote?

I saw a news report that said Trump may actually do something that hasn't been done in awhile by a republican.. win the popular vote

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/operatio ... -1.5806820

Experts in the field give credit to OWS for even speeding up Pfizer vaxx by setting a seemingly impossible due date that spurred competition between manufacturers, and taking some of the financial risk out of the equation by giving a guaranteed market.



I don’t think so. Trump has always supported the vaxx and told people it was safe and to take it. That was a twist of fate on partisan lines imo, and is something that has long amused me (both in the way it flipped and how MAGA peeps make up a sizable portion of vocal anti vaxxers while Trump supported it - not sure how that circle is squared in their minds).

When Trump was president working on OWS it was the Dems who were publicly saying they wouldnt trust or take it (in fact Kamala said it in a vice presidential debate during last election cycle). Once it rolled out under Biden, it suddenly flipped and became a blue position to be pro vaxx and the red position to be anti vaxx. Because if Blue Team supports something Red Team must oppose it, and vice versa. There’s no way to know, but I suspect if Trump had beat Biden, the anti-vaxx movement would have been centered in blue camp



I haven’t heard anything about him paying people to vote. The thing I’ve heard is he’s been selecting 1 person a day (up until the election) among signers of some petition to “support the constitution” to pay a million dollars to

If Trump wins on election day, please remind me to be sympathetic and empathetic towards America and not go on the attack out of disappointment and sadness.

I’ll be on the attack if that happens, against Democrats. I felt that Harris was a mistake, I know I had a bit of hope when the polls showed her doing okay, but right now I’m right back to cursing their incompetence.

I remember Hillary went on the attack against Dems when she lost. At first I dismissed it as emotional but I soon realized she was completely correct

I think Dems are less to blame here if they lose but still absolutely the ones to
Blame

Hillary should never have been the candidate. Nobody likes her (okay, more reasonably, very few people actually like her). Harris is similar in that regard, but hopefully she doesn’t share the same fate.

I think Harris is worse. Hillary may have had likability issues but she was competent with state craft. Harris is neither. I think without the Sanders debacle pushing a segment of voters away from Dems, Hillary would have won. If Kamala loses it’s just because she was a god awful choice to replace Biden on the ticket

Maybe they should stop running women

I didn’t like Hilary but I would have liked voting for her. I’d feel like I’m making a very responsible vote, putting someone I trust into office

I like Kamala more but wouldn’t like voting for her as much but I’d still happily do it


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I’ve also realized it’s really dumb to be mad at or blame republican voters. They’re allowed to vote for whoever they want and if I don’t respect that, then I don’t deserve to live in a democracy. I think getting mad at blue voters who don’t show up or DNC is a good place to direct frustration



Or Jews

Running women isn’t the problem.

The problem is neither of them would win a proper primary, and as such they are unfit.

Hilary didn’t win, they tried to crown her.

Harris is exactly the same thing, although slightly more understandable. The problem is that she’s the end result of trying to run Biden, unopposed, at 100,000 years old.

As for Hilary, what are you on about? She’s the wife of a former President. That’s not a qualification to be president, it’s a disqualification.

The problem isn’t that they’re women. The problem is Hillary had too much baggage and the only reason to vote for Kamala aside from anti-Trump sentiments is that she’s a woman of color. As an incidental factor I don’t think it’s a problem, but when it’s supposed to carry the candidate it’s not enough

Like Obama. If the only reason for people to vote for him was he’d be the first black pres I don’t think he ever wins, but he was likable and politically savvy and ran to victory on a platform of Hope