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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 9:20 am 
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Attempt at Fuse mechanics that jive with each other for a joint effect:

May the Force be with You
Instant (U)
Put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield.
\\\\ FUSE \\\\
Always
Instant (U)
Target permanent gains indestructible until end of turn.

An Elegant Weapon
Sorcery (C)
Search your library for an equipment card, reveal it and put it into your hand. The shuffle.
\\\\ FUSE \\\\
A More Civilized Age
Sorcery (C)
Each player sacrifices an artifact.

Normally I wouldn't tutor at common, but the Star Wars universe has no end of weapons.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 9:29 am 
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Based on your excellent points, I have cut Cycling as it adds nothing to the set.

Fuse stays in because its evocative and fun to design.
Wanted stays in because its a theme throughout star wars and can take the place of cycling as the mechanic for the utility cards.
Use the Force and heroic stay in, but I'm going to probably cut back on it a bit on some of the X spells as I have like 50 in the set right now. Heroic is fine where it is and fills the same spot that wanted does, but for creatures, and still fits thematically.

Still bandying about with Hyperspace. Maybe a Phase out that phases in when certain conditions are met? Like, this phases out until you play a land? or "this phases out, pay 3 to phase in?" I want people to have some control other than just "when the counters tick down" as they can get in about out of hyperspace as they see fit. Although the attack replacement still works as well.

I have Chewie and R2 in the file, but they were first pass designs that I am not a huge fan of.

Chewie
Legendary Creature - Wookie Artificer (U)
Trample
When Chewie enters, return target artifact card from your graveyard to your hand.
4/3

Chewie is a top notch mechanic. He's strong. Hes' a great pilot, which his higher power helps reflect. I could make him rare and say "When Chewie crews his first Vehicle each turn, untap him"?

R2, I really don't know as he is sort of the "Sonic Screwdriver" of the Star Wars universe. Little dude can do like, anything. Looking at the card I had in the file, I have jettisoned it as it was just not right. I would love to see what you think?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 10:16 am 
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Dudibus wrote:
Use the Force and heroic stay in, but I'm going to probably cut back on it a bit on some of the X spells as I have like 50 in the set right now. Heroic is fine where it is and fills the same spot that wanted does, but for creatures, and still fits thematically.

Could also focus on making more of the use the force cards target your own creatures to double-down as heroic fodder.

Dudibus wrote:
Still bandying about with Hyperspace. Maybe a Phase out that phases in when certain conditions are met? Like, this phases out until you play a land? or "this phases out, pay 3 to phase in?" I want people to have some control other than just "when the counters tick down" as they can get in about out of hyperspace as they see fit. Although the attack replacement still works as well.

That could be a neat idea. You'd still want a reward for jumping to hyperspace more than being phased out, I think. It's nice being untouchable, but less useful if you can't affect play. Phasing back in on a land-play is thematic: it's like you've reached your destination. Maybe it's a simple card-draw mechanic:

Basic Starfighter
Artifact - Vehicle (C)
Flying, jump to hyperspace (As this attacks, you may have it phase out. If you do, draw a card. This doesn't phase back in unless a land entered the battlefield under your control during your previous turn.)
2/2

It's thematic, but not particularly well built. Will have to work on that some more.

Dudibus wrote:
R2, I really don't know as he is sort of the "Sonic Screwdriver" of the Star Wars universe. Little dude can do like, anything. Looking at the card I had in the file, I have jettisoned it as it was just not right. I would love to see what you think?

R2 units are all built to be catch-all mechanics, so I imagine he's have very artifact-centered abilities.

Dudibus wrote:
Attempt at Fuse mechanics that jive with each other for a joint effect:

May the Force be with You
Instant (U)
Put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield.
\\\\ FUSE \\\\
Always
Instant (U)
Target permanent gains indestructible until end of turn.

I meant to mention this with one or your earlier cards: Always can't target the creature put on the battlefield with May the Force Be with You. Always would have to either give all your creatures indestructible or do something like "The creature you control with the highest mana value gains indestructible until end of turn." Otherwise, I like the card.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 10:27 am 
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Thoughts on navigate: "look at the top X cards of your library, put one into your hand and the rest on the bottom in a random order" or maybe something akin to explore for vehicles?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 10:32 am 
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Always can't target the creature put onto the battlefield because I have to choose the targets for Always BEFORE May The Force Be with You resolves and puts the creature into play? Just making sure I understand that one. And that does mess with The Force is My Ally\A Powerful Ally it is....stupid Magic and their dumb rules having to have actual structure and/or logic.

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Resolve spells before targets are chosen.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 11:08 am 
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Dudibus wrote:
Always can't target the creature put onto the battlefield because I have to choose the targets for Always BEFORE May The Force Be with You resolves and puts the creature into play? Just making sure I understand that one. And that does mess with The Force is My Ally\A Powerful Ally it is....stupid Magic and their dumb rules having to have actual structure and/or logic.

Correct. May the Force Be with You doesn't have any targets, but Always does, and all targets must be chosen before the spell can reach the stack. Furthermore, May the Force Be With You also has to say "You may put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield" due to some ridiculous legalize of Magic rules. (Basically, if I cast this, and suddenly putting a creature from my hand onto the battlefield is bad for me, do I have to put one out? If I no longer have a creature in hand, do I have to reveal it to prove I don't? Etc.)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 1:08 pm 
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Quote:
Naturally. Do you have a design skeleton or an idea of how big you want it? Are you trying to make it fall in line with real Magic sets? I'd probably stuff the file, take a look at what you like, then start culling as need be. There are so many aspects that haven't been touched yet. No Chewie or R2 unless I missed them.


I am using the default design skeleton MSE comes with as an initial guide line (39 of each color - 19 commons, 11 uncommon, 7 rares, 2 mythic). That only gives you rarity #s so I have been using Bloomburrow for the distribution of card types across the rarities, with mythics being pretty much whatever I want. Also, the numbers will get bumped around a bit with hybrid, multi, fuse, etc. Artifacts have a higher number in this set as well to accommodate the Vehicles, equipment and droids. I think its 269 cards in total? I have about 230 cards designed for it in total so far (your cards included).

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 3:36 pm 
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Cool!

R2-D2
Legendary Artifact Creature - Droid (R)
You may cast Vehicle cards from your graveyard by additionally paying their crew costs. Each Vehicle cast this way enters with a finality counter on it.
C-3PO: How would you know the hyperdrive is deactivated?
R2-D2: *beep squeak boop beep beep boop*
C-3PO: The City's central computer told you? R2-D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer!

1/1

C-3PO, Human-Cyborg Relations
Legendary Artifact Creature - Droid (R)
Artifact creatures you control have ": Add one of any color. Spend this mana only to cast nonartifact creature spells or activate abilities of nonartifact creatures."
Uncle Owen: Can you speak Bocce?
C-3PO: Of course I can, sir, it's like a second language to me. I was...
Uncle Owen : All right, shut up.
C-3PO : Shutting up, sir.

0/3

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 6:38 am 
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What about the idea of the lands reflecting hyperspace?

Naboo
Land (C)
Naboo enters tapped unless a Vehicle entered this turn.
: Add or .

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 11:45 am 
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Not a fan. Casting a spell (in this case, a Vehicle) uses up your mana; playing the land after that limits its usefulness. If you want a simple check, just having a Vehicle is cleaner and much more useful.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 6:37 pm 
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Not a fan. Casting a spell (in this case, a Vehicle) uses up your mana; playing the land after that limits its usefulness. If you want a simple check, just having a Vehicle is cleaner and much more useful.


How about:

Naboo
Land (C)
Naboo enters tapped.
Hyperspace (Tap an untapped Vehicle you control: Untap this land. Activate this ability only once each turn and only as a sorcery.)
: Add or .

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 11:23 pm 
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It works. I'm not sure the flavor is perfectly resonant, but it gives your vehicles something else to do. But it makes more sense to me for hyperspace to be something featured on vehicles rather than on lands. I do, however, like the idea that lands are part of it, the whole goal of jumping to hyperspace being to get to another location quickly. Some ideas in that vein:

Example Star Cruiser A
Artifact - Vehicle
Jump to hyperspace (As this attacks, you may have it jump to hyperspace. If you do, draw a card. This phases out until the next time a land enters under your control.)
2/2

Example Star Cruiser B
Artifact - Vehicle
Jump to hyperspace (As this attacks, you may have it jump to hyperspace. If you do, transform it.)
2/2
~~~~~
Example Planet
Land
: Add [some amount/color of mana]. Transform Example Planet.

Example Star Cruiser C
Artifact - Vehicle
Jump to hyperspace (As this attacks, you may have it jump to hyperspace. If you do, remove it from combat. You may play an additional land this turn.)
2/2

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 2:47 am 
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It works. I'm not sure the flavor is perfectly resonant, but it gives your vehicles something else to do. But it makes more sense to me for hyperspace to be something featured on vehicles rather than on lands. I do, however, like the idea that lands are part of it, the whole goal of jumping to hyperspace being to get to another location quickly. Some ideas in that vein:

Example Star Cruiser A
Artifact - Vehicle
Jump to hyperspace (As this attacks, you may have it jump to hyperspace. If you do, draw a card. This phases out until the next time a land enters under your control.)
2/2

Example Star Cruiser B
Artifact - Vehicle
Jump to hyperspace (As this attacks, you may have it jump to hyperspace. If you do, transform it.)
2/2
~~~~~
Example Planet
Land
: Add [some amount/color of mana]. Transform Example Planet.

Example Star Cruiser C
Artifact - Vehicle
Jump to hyperspace (As this attacks, you may have it jump to hyperspace. If you do, remove it from combat. You may play an additional land this turn.)
2/2
I'd be very careful with versions of this that don't deal combat damage. especially for a vehicle, which takes up another one of your potential attackers as well. it's really surprising how much a game can drag on without chip damage.

Star Cruiser-
Artifact-Vehicle
Whenever Star Cruiser attacks, you may have it jump to hyperspace. If you do, draw a card. (If it jumps to hyperspace, exile it from the battlefield at end of combat, then return it to your hand at the start of your next upkeep.)
Crew 2
2/2

not necessarily in love with the specific execution, but putting all your eggs into an attacker that disappears before blockers are declared is going to make a really sloggy format.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 7:59 am 
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I've been trying to create The Death Star, but I have been having some Vorthos\Melvin issues with the design of a super powerful weapon the size of a small moon.

Initially I had:

The Death Star
Legendary Artifact - Vehicle (M)
The Death Star can't gain indestructible. - A nod to it's exhaust port issues and that it gets destroyed twice.
Flying, trample
When the Death Star attacks or blocks, destroy any number of target permanents with a combined mana value of X where X is its crew.
Crew X - this works with the design but bugs me on another level. Like, 1 crew could never fly the death star!
20/3 - another nod to its weaknesses.

There are a bunch of issues with that design, and I realized I'd rather have the Death Star as something truly terrifying when your opponent fields it, rather than the more tongue in cheek version above.

So next was:

The Death Star
Legendary Artifact - Vehicle (M)
Flying, trample, annihilator 3
Crew 7
12/12

But that means bringing back annihilator as a one off, plus 12/12 seems, smaller? than the death star should be. And it seems too vanilla for such a marque card.

So then it was:

The Death Star
Legendary Artifact (M)
The Death Star enters tapped.
, sacrifice The Death Star: Destroy all permanents.

I did away with it being a Vehicle at all and just made it a tool of destruction, but it seemed to broad now. A super Nivens Disk also seemed, while splashy, sort of boring.

The Death Star
Legendary Artifact (M)
Flying, trample
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may destroy target land. If you do, destroy each creature that shares a color with a color of mana it can produce.
15/15
The Death Star has cleared the planet.

This is where I have landed. It's not a Vehicle, it has huge numbers, and the opponent has a chance to deal with it before it starts seriously smashing. It can destroy lands and all the creatures living on it flavourfully. This also prompted the creation of this card:

Exhaust Port
Sorcery (C)
Destroy target permanent that was dealt damage by an artifact this turn.
Use the force, Luke.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:16 am 
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razorborne wrote:
I'd be very careful with versions of this that don't deal combat damage. especially for a vehicle, which takes up another one of your potential attackers as well. it's really surprising how much a game can drag on without chip damage.

Good point I hadn't really considered. My earlier version of hyperspace was the opposite: make the vehicle unblockable at the price of exerting.

Dudibus wrote:
I've been trying to create The Death Star, but I have been having some Vorthos\Melvin issues with the design of a super powerful weapon the size of a small moon.

While it has some properties of a vehicle, it feels like more of a space station than a space ship. With that in mind, I'd consider not making it a creature. I do like the major mechanic on your last rendition: destroy a land, destroy creature associated with it has a nice flare to it. Even though flavorfully it makes sense to destroy all the creatures associated with the land, I think it plays better to hit one creature per land.

Things that scream "Death Star" to me:
  1. Easily mistaken for a moon
  2. Power to destroy entire planets
  3. Main base for thousands of Impereal soldiers
  4. Key design-flaw that small fighters can manipulate
  5. Houses tons of smaller craft

Some ideas that conjures:
  1. Making it a transform card that starts as "Small Moon" and flips into "Death Star"
  2. Land destruction. Regardless of what else happens, it has to cause land destruction.
  3. The thousands of housed soldiers sort of makes me wanna walk back my earlier statement and make this a vehicle with "Crew 20", lol.
  4. In conjunction with the "design-flaw", having a Death Star vehicle that becomes a "15/1" is kind of hilarious. I might be talking myself back into this being a vehicle.
  5. I just mentioned the small craft thing to be complete, but I don't have anything evocative for that, and an Imperial Star Destroyer is probably a better home for a "Vehicle that loves vehicles" design.

In a related thought, not that this set needs more things crammed into it, but it'd be a good fit for battles. Maybe a cycle of 5: The siege on Hoth, the Jedi battle on Geonosis, the Yavin assault on the Death Star, the Scarif battle to obtain the Death Star plans, the Ewok battle on Endor. I sort of hate the new trilogy, so I haven't been including stuff from it (and I sort of forget some things), but I suppose the final battle at Exogol is important. I suppose you could focus on smaller battles instead, like Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn vs. Darth Maul.

Edit: Because the new trilogy should be lambasted:

Finn, Wasted Protagonist
Legendary? Creature - Human Clone (U)
Whenever you use the force, untap Finn, then tap him.
"Awesome! A character that might allow us to explore the lives of stormtroopers, the traumas of that existence, and the possibility of force-sensitivity outside the Jedi realm! Wait, what do you mean that's not important to the plot???"
─Reddit

1/1

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:45 am 
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Oh I am right there with you on the new trilogies. I have included a few things from it, but I have been trying to avoid it because man, they are just not good.

Lol "Legendary?". I think every character was wasted really. Either they have no defining characteristics at all - ie Poe Dameron, or they have constantly flip flopping motivations with no direction from scene to scene.

Copying the original movie so closely was cringy enough, but apparently branching from it means a meandering pile of hot air.

Also, must include Battles.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 2:45 pm 
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I agree with above that the set needs a "use the force" or "may the force be with you" mechanic. One way of conceptualizing that is Jedi with powerful effects. I've made a cycle of Jedi, one for each color

Obi-Wan Kenobi
Legendary Creature-Jedi
Use the force: Target creature you control gets +3/+3 until end of turn and other creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn
5/5

Yoda
Legendary Creature-Jedi
Use the force: All damage that would be dealt to Yoda this turn is dealt to another target creature instead
5/5

Luke Skywalker
Legendary Creature-Jedi
Use the force: Search your library for an Equipment card and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
5/5

Darth Vader
Legendary Creature-Jedi
Use the force: Darth Vader deals damage equal to his power to another target creature
5/5

Count Dooku
Legendary Creature-Jedi
Use the force: Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gets +1/+1 and gains haste until end of turn
5/5

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 4:03 pm 
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Admiral Ackbar
Legendary Creature - Fish Alien (R)
Vigilance, ward
, : Remove target creature you control from combat.
"It's a trap!"
2/2

I agree with above that the set needs a "use the force" or "may the force be with you" mechanic. One way of conceptualizing that is Jedi with powerful effects. I've made a cycle of Jedi, one for each color

I wasn't sure if you were suggesting a different mechanic for use the force or didn't see the one Dudibus settled on. In case it's the latter:

Use the force ─ Each [MANA] you spend on [casting this spell/activating this ability] pays for .

Otherwise, it feels a bit slim using an ability word just for "powerful ."

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 4:15 pm 
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Commons:

Ace Pilot
Creature ─ Imperial Soldier (C)
When Ace Pilot crews a Vehicle, that Vehicle gains deathtouch until end of turn.
1/1

Embrace the Dark Side
Sorcery (C)
Draw two cards and lose 2 life. If an opponent lost life this turn, lose 1 life instead.

I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
Sorcery (C)
Target opponent reveals all the cards in their hand except for one. You choose a nonland card revealed in this way. That player discards it.

Uncommons:

Fallen Jedi
Creature ─ Sith Warrior (U)
Discard a nonblack creature: Create a token copy of Fallen Jedi.
Deathtouch
1/1

Imperial Medic
Creature ─ Imperial Soldier (U)
When Imperial Medic enters, each player sacrifices a creature. Then return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
2/2

Jabba the Hutt
Legendary Creature ─ Alien Outlaw (R)
Menace, hexproof from X costs
Whenever a creature enters under an opponents control it becomes wanted.
Outlaw spells you cast cost you less to cast.
6/6

I tweaked the Outlaw creature collection to include Bounty Hunters as well. (Assassins, Mercenaries, Pirates, Rogues, Warlocks and Bounty Hunters are outlaws.)

Youngling
Creature ─ Jedi Warrior (C)
: Add .
: Add a mana of any color. Spend this mana only to use the force.
1/1

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 10:12 pm 
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Still wracking my brain about hyperspace. The problem is suspend and plot have really already done what seems to work best so most of my attempts have been knock offs. I think Rush has the most unique idea from other existing mechanics with the "Jump to hyperspace (As this attacks, you may have it jump to hyperspace. If you do," format. It is easy to understand, and I can use it to make each vehicle seem more unique. I have been trying to find a way to make the standard ETB tapped dual lands into something that works with hyperspace as well, and in this case I could just say "This enters tapped unless a permanent you control jumped to hyperspace this turn." It ties the vehicles and planets together and takes some of the sting out of tapping to crew and losing an attacker. Plus I can make the jump mechanics strong enough to balance it.

My other option is either a suspend rip off:

Hyperdrive X (X, exile this with X time counters on it: At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove any number of time counters. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost. It has haste. Activate this ability only as a sorcery.)

So you spend X, but you have the option of dropping out of hyperspace on any given upkeep. Sorcery so you can't use it for protection. It has to be a choice against the board state.

Or using a "Hyperspace Zone" that mimics the Command Zone in all respects including the increasing cost to play it from the hyperspace zone, except you pay a cost to put it into the hyperspace zone vs. it going there when it dies.

Could something as simple as "When this attacks you may exile it. You may play this from exile." work?

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