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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 11:47 am 
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DJ0045 wrote:
We're a very conservative country. Most of our liberals would be considered conservatives in many western democracies.


Absolutely. Your democratic party is more right than our conservative party in Canada.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 11:51 am 
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DJ0045 wrote:
We're a very conservative country. Most of our liberals would be considered conservatives in many western democracies.


Absolutely. Your democratic party is more right than our conservative party in Canada.


Exactly. So why is everyone so shocked when conservatives produce conservative policies? Is it a labeling issue? Most (not all) of the people who call Democrats liberals, in the US, are people who intend the term as a pejorative.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 12:34 pm 
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yeah it's a very funny dichotomy. Liberal Canadians LOVE idolizing the American democratic party and villainizing our own conservative party. When you hit them with this statement/comparison, they LOSE their **** and refuse to believe it.

I've lost the website but there was one which basically plotted major global political parties on a scale (left center right), and it was really cool to see just how conservative the US actually is. Really helped me navigate many conversations with people around the globe so you can have a more apples to apples chit chat


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 1:02 pm 
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You as all modern democracies are liberal democracies Sixty, thats just a fact, and thats where I´m coming from, not that I´m a fevered liberal, its just the common ground I think I share with you guys here.

That said...
1. like I said, I dunno if what Biden is proposing is actually correct, the problem you point is in fact a very real one and I have not considered it. This rises some questions.
I only have the Chilean example so tell in what part this differs from yours:
1. vacancy occurs for what ever reasons
2. The supreme court drafts for candidates and present a 5 list nomination to the acting president.
3. The president selects one candidate and makes a nomination
4. The senate has to get to a 2/3s quorum to pass the nomination
5. The new member is confirmed by the president.
Our supreme court is not lacking of issues but partisanship is not one of them

2. The confidence in our justice system is on free-fall too but for this very real issue that theres a justice for the powerful and a justice for the common people, this has generated lots of resentment and its currently a very relevant political issue, its hard to address coz separation of powers.

3. I think that also might be the case, that's why I tried to be clear that I dunno details and only have this general notion of whats happening there.

PS: democracy is not particularly hard in the US. Its just that you like to think that you are very special.


So our supreme court is the SMALLEST in the world, and if a vacancy opens up for whatever the President is legally allowed to nominate whoever he wants for the spot. Technically this means he could nominate you since The Constitution does not specify qualifications for Justices such as age, education, profession, or native-born citizenship. A Justice does not have to be a lawyer or a law school graduate.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 1:02 pm 
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The key point is that Liberal, Socialist, Communist, basically all left-leaning terminology in the US is pejorative first, descriptive second.

I personally DON'T use the terms that way, but I'm in the minority. Most Americans do not consider those terms to be positive, which is exactly why Republicans use those terms to describe Democrats - it's meant as, at best, a critique, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 1:08 pm 
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the use of "liberal" in a negative sense is relatively new. Probably just a decade or two.

But "communist" has always been ULTRA negative in the States and, as a result, "socialist" is certainly adjacent.

Being from a socialist country, I used to get annoyed by that, but once I learned that the US is FUNDAMENTALLY conservative at its core, i took less offence cuz rightfully the idea of socialism SHOULD be slightly alien/offensive to an American. It's not in their country's DNA at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 1:11 pm 
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the use of "liberal" in a negative sense is relatively new. Probably just a decade or two.

But "communist" has always been ULTRA negative in the States and, as a result, "socialist" is certainly adjacent.

Being from a socialist country, I used to get annoyed by that, but once I learned that the US is FUNDAMENTALLY conservative at its core, i took less offence cuz rightfully the idea of socialism SHOULD be slightly alien/offensive to an American. It's not in their country's DNA at all.


"Liberal" was already used negatively in the 90s, when I became politically aware, and I don't think it was new even then. People like Rush Limbaugh used it that way as early as 94 or so - and yes, he was a huge influence at that time with millions of active listeners to his daily radio show.

So it's more like 30 years, at least, as confirmed by my own personal experience, but I'd suspect longer.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 1:29 pm 
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Rush 100% started it, you’re so right. But I don’t think it caught on until much later but you’re right that it started with him. Probably late 80s even


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 1:37 pm 
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Rush 100% started it, you’re so right. But I don’t think it caught on until much later but you’re right that it started with him. Probably late 80s even


That certainly jives with what I know, but I wouldn't know if he was inspired by someone even older that came before him.

Honestly, Rush did the most damage to the US of any single person I can think of. He really marked the beginning of the end of bipartisan politics. The only question, to me, is was he the symptom of an even deeper issue, or the cause?


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 1:50 pm 
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Oh it doesn’t matter if someone said it before Rush. He is the reason everyone says it. He weaponized it in a propaganda way


Sixty will hate that I bring this up but this great book on partisan politics called “it’s even worse than it looks” cowritten by a Republican and Democrat squarely puts the blame on Rush and then on the Republican party for running with it for so long to the detriment of the nation. It’s a great book.

The book also blames Nixon for starting public distrust of government but I don’t see that connection to partisanship at all


—-

Wow Canada women’s rugby got silver!! We got wrecked again by New Zealand (as we should) but I don’t understand how we beat Australia to get to finals. Way to go ladies


Last edited by Black Barney on Tue Jul 30, 2024 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 1:54 pm 
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Oh it doesn’t matter if someone said it before Rush. He is the reason everyone says it. He weaponized it in a propaganda way


Sixty will hate that I bring this up but this great book on partisan politics called “it’s even worse than it looks” cowritten by a Republican and Democrat squarely puts the blame on Rush and then on the Republican party for running with it for so long to the detriment of the nation. It’s a great book.


Fair enough. I should probably read that book. I'll try to remember to check it out. I'd probably enjoy it - but, tbf, it's probably confirmation bias, and, for once, a product of my hard-to-find echo chamber.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:28 pm 
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1. Oh then never mind liberal concerns towards the independency of Justice, I guess it’s all fine if the Supreme Court is partisan driven, coz thats the way you do things.



Nobody who’s complaining about the SC right now really cares about the “independency of Justice”.

This is mostly just being pissed about Roe. And tbh the original ruling was the wrong one; legal scholars have been talking about how poorly reasoned it was since it happened. If we want to have a national standard on abortion, Congress needs to pass it not partisan activist judges :hand:

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:35 pm 
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DJ, I wouldn't worry about confirmation bias because it's backed by a lot of facts, so if it strengthens your views with facts (again, co-written by a republican), that's not a bad thing. Plus, I think you'll find all the early signs of Newt and Rush (they are together blamed for what eventually turned into this confrontation partisan gridlock your nation seems to be stuck in) informative and revealing.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:42 pm 
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1. Oh then never mind liberal concerns towards the independency of Justice, I guess it’s all fine if the Supreme Court is partisan driven, coz thats the way you do things.



Nobody who’s complaining about the SC right now really cares about the “independency of Justice”.

This is mostly just being pissed about Roe. And tbh the original ruling was the wrong one; legal scholars have been talking about how poorly reasoned it was since it happened. If we want to have a national standard on abortion, Congress needs to pass it not partisan activist judges :hand:


And, it's worth mentioning that congress has had MANY opportunities since Roe to pass a national law, and has never once done so.

Mind you, the national law could still have been challenged, and overturned (even by SCOTUS), but that's a debate for another day.

We have all kinds of national laws regarding entitlements, rights, discrimination, etc... and they never bothered to enshrine abortion care as a national right. -> this should tell you everything you ever needed to know about 1) whether this has always been mostly a way to garner votes, and 2) how much the politicians actually care about maintaining those rights.

DJ, I wouldn't worry about confirmation bias because it's backed by a lot of facts, so if it strengthens your views with facts (again, co-written by a republican), that's not a bad thing. Plus, I think you'll find all the early signs of Newt and Rush (they are together blamed for what eventually turned into this confrontation partisan gridlock your nation seems to be stuck in) informative and revealing.


I was kidding a little bit with that comment. But thanks for the clarification all the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:43 pm 
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My sister hates Rush. IDK why either. It's a 3 man band. And they're from Canada. They have a lot of great hits, it's not like they were a 1 hit wonder.


----z

My dad used to listen to Limbaugh when I was a kid. He listened to NPR so I heard a lot of that old lady sex doctor that used to be on there too. He was a small town country boy who had a job that had him stuck in the truck a lot so I don't blame him.

The **** that used to come out of Rush's mouth though. As a boy scout and being raised Christian I used to always think "you just don't talk about people that way"

It's okay BB I knew, reading DJs post, that you were about to bring up that book. It's like I have Spidey Sense of your book references now.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:53 pm 
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I’ve read so few books that it gets predictable when I’m gonna bring them up

There are always 3 I seem to bring up, non-fiction.

Another one once in a while

And 3 fiction books (all King).

I think they’re my favourite 7 books so I just always talk about them hoping others read them cuz they were all transformative in different ways


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Old lady sex doctor!! Dr Ruth!!! Loved her. She was John Mulaneys Inspiration for his first stand up attempts when he was 5 years old lol

You never forget the first time you make a room full of people laugh. For Me it was at Cub Scout camp


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:03 pm 
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Yeah Dr Ruth, that's the one. I've been listening to her program since about 6 years old. Mullaney was doing a segment with Mike Tirico for the Olympics yesterday. He's a funny guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:10 pm 
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I've grown to really like Mulaney. If you like him a lot, I REALLY recommend watching the short Letterman special with him on Netflix. It's a deep dive into his past, his addiction, his struggles and beginnings. I really loved it.


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My FB is STILL blowing up with Christians saying the opening ceremony was an abomination to Christianity. I’m so happy I don’t practice anymore. What a bunch of goddamn morons


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:44 pm 
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Wait I’m sorry… but wasn’t it an obvious affront to Christianity? I mean, even the weak sauce bs about it being some reference to old Greek bacchanalian events should still be an affront to Christianity. Why are they depicting pagan rituals in a dominantly Catholic country?

The much more likely reality is that it was in fact a depiction of the Last Supper and people are being gaslit. But that’s just my speculation.

I couldn’t possibly care less about it, and I didn’t watch. But if we’re going to discuss it, let’s not pretend that the offended people have no justification for being offended.

To be clear, that’s not particularly directed at you BB, I’m expanding the discussion beyond your point here. You just called them morons, and I’m fine with that characterization.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:59 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
Wait I’m sorry… but wasn’t it an obvious affront to Christianity? I mean, even the weak sauce bs about it being some reference to old Greek bacchanalian events should still be an affront to Christianity. Why are they depicting pagan rituals in a dominantly Catholic country?


Counter question; Why wouldn't the Olympics include ancient Greek Religious iconography?

The obviously likely reality is that the Olympics does and always has and always will.

Another obvious question; Why would the opening ceremony for a worldwide spectacle that's intended to bring peace and bring people together mock ANY religion? I don't think they did


Edit: sorry, to answer your queations; Because the Olympics isn't about Christianity. (Also edit: I think we agree, but ya know, questions/answers/discussion)

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