You two are both misrepresenting what was said about gerrymandering. We never said they were equal. I said they were bith forms of eliminating your opponent. If you have argument against that, present it. But stop it with the "Yeah guys these two things are totally equal" because that's NOT what was said. As we say in sports; They are in the same ballpark.
Okay, my bad then. With gerrymanding you have at least the option of going to the courts and saying "hey this is happening." and they either agreeing with you and doing something to fix it or them not. Along with other remedies that take longer such as redistricting.
A dictatorship about the only remedy you have is leaving if you can or over throwing it.
If those are in the same ball park so is simply voting your opponent out of office or legally disqualifying them.
I knew DP would show up eventually, after DJ made a post, but you're to late. The arguments over.
You two are both misrepresenting what was said about gerrymandering. We never said they were equal. I said they were bith forms of eliminating your opponent. If you have argument against that, present it. But stop it with the "Yeah guys these two things are totally equal" because that's NOT what was said. As we say in sports; They are in the same ballpark.
Okay, my bad then. With gerrymanding you have at least the option of going to the courts and saying "hey this is happening." and they either agreeing with you and doing something to fix it or them not. Along with other remedies that take longer such as redistricting.
A dictatorship about the only remedy you have is leaving if you can or over throwing it.
If those are in the same ball park so is simply voting your opponent out of office or legally disqualifying them.
I knew DP would show up eventually, after DJ made a post, but you're to late. The arguments over.
Edit: I forgot to add, You win.
But..but once I understood what you were saying I engaged on those terms, at least i thought I did.
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"angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night," -GINSBERG
Fwiw, my disagreement was mostly with BB, so it’s weird that you (sixty) think you were even the primary target of my responses, but that is certainly my bad, because I should have just kept quoting the Russia is a democracy statement in each of my responses.
Sorry for coming across as an ****, it’s never my intent, but sometimes it happens.
Okay, my bad then. With gerrymanding you have at least the option of going to the courts and saying "hey this is happening." and they either agreeing with you and doing something to fix it or them not. Along with other remedies that take longer such as redistricting.
A dictatorship about the only remedy you have is leaving if you can or over throwing it.
If those are in the same ball park so is simply voting your opponent out of office or legally disqualifying them.
I knew DP would show up eventually, after DJ made a post, but you're to late. The arguments over.
Edit: I forgot to add, You win.
But..but once I understood what you were saying I engaged on those terms, at least i thought I did.
Maybe I'm being an ass today. Maybe that's how sixty gets when people outright lie about what he said. I really did not come here to continue the debate, but to tell you two to debate better. And it's not just misrepresenting what I and BB said. It was the LOLs and eyeroll emoji after every "totally the SAME thing guys" that got under my skin.
I knew DP would show up eventually, after DJ made a post, but you're to late. The arguments over.
Edit: I forgot to add, You win.
But..but once I understood what you were saying I engaged on those terms, at least i thought I did.
Maybe I'm being an ass today. Maybe that's how sixty gets when people outright lie about what he said. I really did not come here to continue the debate, but to tell you two to debate better. And it's not just misrepresenting what I and BB said. It was the LOLs and eyeroll emoji after every "totally the SAME thing guys" that got under my skin.
so looking back I seemed to have jumped in at dj's quoting of bb:
There are other ways to maintain power without being a dictator
And you don’t have to be an “evil” country to dabble in those “other ways”
For instance, gerrymandering is one type of activity.
I’m arguing against this.
Which is what I was responding to.
As for bb's point for all intents, just because you have claim to have free and fair elections doesn't make you not a dictatorship. For example China has elections but I'd still call them a communistic/authoritative country, North Korea also has elections (Supposedly) but you'd totally call them a dictatorship.
Unlike a dictatorship, gerrymandering has more than just two remedies.
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"angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night," -GINSBERG
Venezuela would have been a better example of technically not a dictatorship copied and pasted from the Washington post
Venezuelans vote in election that could oust an autocrat
CARACAS, Venezuela — Tensions were high in voting centers across Venezuela on Sunday as beleaguered citizens cast ballots in an election that could bring an end to the authoritarian government of Nicolás Maduro and the socialist state that has controlled this crisis-stricken South American nation for a quarter-century.
The country’s opposition, long fractured and suffocated by the autocratic government, sees its best chance in more than a decade to unseat the strongman, whom many here blame for this oil-rich country’s economic collapse and the exodus of millions of migrants, hundreds of thousands of them to the United States.
Maduro has barred the opposition’s chosen candidate, arrested campaign workers and blocked access to state media. Still, the opposition says it can win — and by a landslide.
But in a country where the electoral council, courts and military are controlled by Maduro, the outcome remains far from certain. He and his team remain confident they can win, according to people familiar with conversations within the government who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the conversations. If he loses at the polls, he’s not expected to cede power willingly.
There were reports of blocked access, delays and some violence. In Maturín, a state capital some 350 miles east of Caracas, local opposition leaders said a voting center coordinator and her mother were demanding access for opposition poll watchers when members of a colectivo — armed Maduro supporters on motorbikes — rode up and shot the mother in the leg.
Voting centers were scheduled to open at 6 a.m. Sunday, but at a school in the Chacao neighborhood of Caracas, a group of 18 people arrived three hours early. They would wait for more than six hours, amid delays opening some voting tables.
By 9 a.m., some of the hundreds of people began to chant, “We want to vote!” Esther Pérez Villegas, whose husband was among those waiting, stepped in to help organize the lines. “Anxiety is high, very high, because of all of the uncertainty we feel,” she said.
Noemi Tovar, 61, had been in line since 3 a.m. “If I have to wait all day, I’ll wait all day,” she said.
“We’ve made lines here for many things — for food, for gasoline,” said Martha Salas, 62. “This is for so much more — for a vote.”
Opposition leader Maria Corina Machado said problems at voting centers “were exceptions to a process that is developing peacefully.”
“The way things are going, I think we are going to have, as they say, irreversible results,” she said at a voting center in Caracas.
The opposition is betting it can turn out voters for a victory so overwhelming that Maduro will be forced to accept the results and begin to negotiate his exit.
The number of eligible voters for the election is estimated at about 17 million. Several voting centers saw long lines. It was not possible to determine whether this reflected the greater turnout that the opposition has said is key to its victory, but some voters in Caracas said they hadn’t seen such long lines in many years.
“I haven’t seen this kind of voter intention since Chávez,” said Vladimir Ramos, a 60-year-old engineer waiting in line. Hugo Chávez, Maduro’s mentor and predecessor, founded Venezuela’s socialist state in 1999 and led it until his death in 2013.
“I think people are no longer afraid,” said Natalie Moreno, 47.
By 12:40 p.m., Maduro addressed the nation to announce the activation of Operation Remate — a word meaning “finish it off” — a government-led effort to rally supporters to the polls. Maduro campaign staff and supporters called people to pressure them to vote and offer food and supplies.
“Let’s mobilize ourselves with force,” Maduro said in a message aired by state television. “Let’s vote with strength as was planned, and with the force of the” social programs.
The government aid was flowing in the rural eastern state of Delta Amacuro. In an Indigenous community there, people were being offered bags of food in exchange of support, said Yoxsamar Jimenez, a poll watcher for the opposition.
“But that’s normal here,” she said. More concerning, she said: Poll watchers were not allowed inside, and the center’s coordinator hit Jimenez.
“To avoid violence, we couldn’t do anything so we had to leave the table,” Jimenez said. “The table is alone and they’re doing whatever they want in that center.”
If Maduro loses, the United States could play a critical role in a potential negotiated transition, offering legal incentives and relief from sanctions to give Maduro a way out that doesn’t lead him straight to prison.
The United States stands ready to “consider measures that would facilitate a peaceful transition of power,” a senior Biden administration official said Friday, speaking on the condition of anonymity under rules set by the administration.
A Maduro defeat would be a significant foreign policy win for the Biden administration. U.S. officials negotiated a deal last year in which Maduro pledged to hold a competitive election in exchange for some sanctions relief. With irregular immigration at the center of the U.S. presidential campaign, success in Venezuela could boost Vice President Harris’s bid against former president Donald Trump.
Venezuela’s opposition’s candidate, the former diplomat Edmundo González, was unknown to most Venezuelans just months ago. Now polls predict he could beat Maduro by double digits. He’s a stand-in for longtime Maduro critic Machado, the “Iron Lady” who draws tens of thousands of Venezuelans to her near-messianic campaign caravans — and has been disqualified from running by Maduro’s supreme court.
Her campaign focuses on a simple message: Vote for us, and your loved ones can come home.
“The central theme is family, in the sense that this could be the last opportunity to reunite our families,” she told The Washington Post. “This is not just an electoral campaign. This is a redemption movement, for liberation.”
Maduro’s campaign has portrayed the opposition as an extreme, right-wing threat that would bring instability.
Some voters in Caracas seemed to agree. Hector Trujillo, a 79-year-old retired architect, said he was voting for “peace” and the continued improvement of the economy. He blamed U.S. sanctions for the country’s troubles. He feared the opposition would “eliminate everything,” including the country’s welfare benefits.
The run-up to the election has been far from free and fair. European Union observers who planned to monitor the vote were disinvited, leaving only small teams from the Atlanta-based Carter Center, a U.N. panel of experts and a grass-roots group of thousands of ordinary Venezuelans who have been training to watch polling centers.
Machado gave a call to action last week: Vote early, stay near the polls and alert the opposition to any suspicious activity. “We will all become citizen reporters,” she said.
Venezuelan Davis Salazar, a retired firefighter, lives in Canada. He has returned home to vote.
“The people woke up. It’s been 25 years of robbing and destroying a people,” said Salazar, 65. “If people want change, they need to go out and vote. Otherwise, we will continue with the same.”
Victor Manuel Morina Parra, a 59-year-old bus driver, said he has noticed discontent among his passengers. He moved from his farm in the countryside to the Katia neighborhood of Caracas, he said, because his rural town was “in a state of total abandonment.”
“We no longer have help from the government. There’s no fuel, the electricity goes out every eight hours,” he said. “That’s why we want change. For our children, for our grandchildren.”
Venezuelans are watching the armed forces and how they respond to any attempt to manipulate the election.
Leopoldo López, an opposition leader, said members of the military should consider their own interests, “their own stability, their own future.”
“Today, with Edmundo, a transition could be a better source of stability,” he said, “rather than Maduro telling them to go out to kill, to repress, to impose the state.”
Maduro has warned of a “bloodbath” if he loses.
“The destiny of Venezuela depends on our victory,” he told rallygoers this month. “If we want to avoid a bloodbath or a fratricidal civil war triggered by the fascists, then we must guarantee the biggest electoral victory ever.”
Maduro’s defense minister, Vladimir Padrino López, said last week he would uphold the law. He called for “the one who won to take charge of his government project and the one who lost, go to rest. That’s all.”
And after reading it, I'm gonna have to say that's the sort of thing some are worried about happening in the US. Trump becoming president and stacking the deck even more in his favor as it make the only way he can be ousted by an over-whelming vote against him. Trump keeps claiming he'll go along with the election if it's fair but he doesn't define what fair means.
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"angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night," -GINSBERG
I knew DP would show up eventually, after DJ made a post, but you're to late. The arguments over.
Edit: I forgot to add, You win.
But..but once I understood what you were saying I engaged on those terms, at least i thought I did.
Maybe I'm being an ass today. Maybe that's how sixty gets when people outright lie about what he said. I really did not come here to continue the debate, but to tell you two to debate better. And it's not just misrepresenting what I and BB said. It was the LOLs and eyeroll emoji after every "totally the SAME thing guys" that got under my skin.
Feel free to show me where I misrepresented the argument or outright lied about what was said.
As for me eye rolling and saying it was totally the same thing... that was NOT directed at you.
I’d like to get back to that US volleyball player now please
Cuba destroyed US men's beach volleyball in straight sets yesterday. Pretty embarrassing.
Cuba destroyed the US on the beach during the Bay of Pigs invasion too
Their entire country is one big beach so don’t feel bad about them winning beach volleyball
Apparently Canada has a qualified surfer in the surfing event. No idea how we have that. We’re surrounded by three oceans and there’s no surfable waves anywhere.
Also the surfing event is in Tahiti!! How far is that from Paris?
Joined: Nov 10, 2013 Posts: 17750 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Sixty talking about Rugby made me watch two Canada women’s games. Fiji and New Zealand
We barely won against Fiji but totally got destroyed by New Zealand. The thighs of some of those girls are insane. This one girl, Miller, is built like a tank. There’s just no way to tackle her, especially 7 girls. This chick could totally kick my ass
I don’t understand a single thing going on but watch Rugby 7’s is more fun than watching big teams
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Watching gymnastics now on a Canadian channel to try and get focus on my own country’s athletes, and yet even up here it’s the Simone show. Non stop coverage on her, she’s incredible. Just saw her on beam and it was nuts.
Sounds like she’s doing zero media interviews to try and not have another Tokyo meltdown
Hey I just found out next summer Olympics are in LA?! That’s gonna be cool to hear coverage from sixty and Timh.
Like I assume they totally close the city to traffic (so many bike races through Paris, so many people, I figure they close off city to traffic anyway)
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I’m amazed at the height Simone gets. She’s only 4’8” and she can get such height in her tumbles, it’s crazy. Like a flea
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I’m glad I don’t watch the news I think cuz my social media has been blowing up for two days with stories of people offended about stuff at the Olympics but I haven’t heard or seen a thing. I’m just watching the events and it’s great
Joined: Nov 10, 2013 Posts: 17750 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I GUESS I'LL NEVER KNOW
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Hey DJ, i saw a cool story in the Wall Street Journal on small towns/cities in the US, and pointing out Texas in particular.
Apparently, small towns are having a huge problem attracting and affording qualified staff for public sector jobs. Boomers are retiring and they're unable to staff these positions. 2/3rds of Texas cities with 3-5k residents and all towns under 3k don't have a finance director, for example.
Cities offer more money so the talent goes there. Worse than that even, the salaries are so small that even if they attracted someone to the position, the average house price in many of these towns is 468k which is totally unaffordable for the salaries being offered.
And if you think the solution is higher salaries, the towns can't afford them.
Interesting article. Honestly, those small rural communities will probably have to decide between raising their property taxes or having services. It might be a good lesson for communities that tend to lean heavily to the political right - some services are worth having, and having them means paying taxes. These communities probably can afford people to fill these positions, but not without upping their budgets.
In an op-ed for the Washington Post outlining his proposals, Biden said he is proposing a constitutional amendment that “would make clear that there is no immunity for crimes a former president committed while in office.”
“I share our Founders’ belief that the president’s power is limited, not absolute,” Biden said. “We are a nation of laws — not of kings or dictators.”
The proposal comes less than a month after the Supreme Court’s 6-3 decision to grant presidents broad immunity from prosecution for crimes they commit in office — a ruling that threatened to halt the ongoing criminal cases against former President Donald Trump.
2. Term limits for justices
“We have had term limits for presidents for nearly 75 years,” Biden argued in the op-ed. “We should have the same for Supreme Court justices.”
Under the president’s proposal, a president “would appoint a justice every two years to spend 18 years in active service on the Supreme Court.”
“Term limits would help ensure that the court’s membership changes with some regularity,” Biden said. “That would make timing for court nominations more predictable and less arbitrary. It would reduce the chance that any single presidency radically alters the makeup of the court for generations to come.”
3. Code of conduct
Under Biden’s proposal, justices “would be required to disclose gifts, refrain from public political activity and recuse themselves from cases in which they or their spouses have financial or other conflicts of interest.”
Currently, all federal judges in the United States are bound by an enforceable code of conduct. But for those on the Supreme Court, the ethics code is voluntary and self-enforced. The proposal follows the revelations that Justice Clarence Thomas and his wife received hundreds of thousands of dollars in tuition and secret consulting fees from conservative billionaires and conservative judicial activists.
Having a binding ethics code for the Supreme Court, Biden said, is “common sense.”
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"angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night," -GINSBERG
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