Hm. That's doesn't strictly mean cult though. That is, alignment changes could be facilitated through roles changing hands, via what we know with the existence of the thief role. Tevish's role's existence definitely encompasses that. Expanding alignment changes to a classical cult though? Don't you think that's a stretch?

Come to think of it, the Tea Party had a similar situation. Zinger had the Spider Cult role (I know, cult, but bear with me). Using the Prince role on him transferred the role to the former Prince whom then became cult off of having the role.

So precedent exists, in a Numbers' game no less, for that kind of alignment change via role swaps.

That said, cult would fall under the alignment change for obv reasons (though that doesn't inherently mean cult exists in this game).

it is evidence of a cult, it doesn't confirm the existence of one. tevish could also be lying.

the lack of deaths is also evidence of a cult, although smaller.

i think a traditional mafia is more likely than a cult and i doubt we have both, but its not true that there is no reason to fear a cult

We've had an outright maf flip, so I think it's safe to say that Maf is in this game. I do agree with KoD that TradCult is a bit of a jump. When I first made my claim, I speculated that there were probably limitations. I know I've been playing coy with what my ability actually is, because I don't want to bleed information unnecessarily, but if we need a full claim to move this forward I'm willing.

it is safe to say mafia is in the game, but its not safe to say that the mafia is a traditional one

if a cult does exist, i would guess that they are mafia-aligned and have limitations. for example, the game may have started with a single mafia don that has two conversion shots but no factional nightkill.

If your theory is correct, that would put us on the timeline where Amber's play would be extremely risky, since Cultafia Amber would know that no kills would be forthcoming. You said as much yourself.



My current acting theory is that Zinger is the cult master. Some of the things he's said, combined with what little I know from my ability, make it seem more likely than when I first dropped the info. Zinger has claimed that his alignment hasn't changed, which means that if Zinger interacts with alignment change (hence the immediate hostility at it being brought up) it's as the inflicting party, not as a victim. I think it would be natural to assume that if I'm claiming an ability that interacts with alignment change, it's some manner of anti-alignment-change ability, since a cultist or cult master would run silent on the topic and let town hunt traditional maf. Therefore, the immediate vote speaks to Zinger being cult. And if Zinger hasn't changed, that makes Zinger the boss.

There's more, but I'd actually have to get into ability details in order to properly describe it.

if zinger is the cult leader that should mean amber is telling the truth which means we have both a cult and a traditional mafia in a 10 player game, which seems less likely to me than either a traditional mafia threat or a mafiacult threat

Is it more implausible than amber adopting what you yourself regarded as a dead-end strategy? 10 players is a weird place. You expect a 2-man maf at 8 and a 3-man maf at 12. A maf that starts at 1 and has the ability to grow to 3 but with no NK doesn't seem much stronger than a 2-man with NK. On the other hand, a 2-man with NK plus a capped cult would create a very threatening atmosphere. However, you give the Maf a jailer -- a day jailer that doesn't interfer with doing NK things -- and that can keep the cult from culting or randos from being culted. And you put out a powerful doc, because that restricts the ability of the mafia to operate while not helping against cult. And then I'm in the mix with the ability to screw with cult.

You have a situation where the board starts at 1/3 scum, which is high but not utterly unreasonable, but have two scum factions that are at odds with each other and powerful abilities at least initially in town hands. It's a three-faction game where town v. scum might be unbalanced but a v. b v. c feels roughly right.

Of course, with the role inheritance mechanic this is also clearly a pretty experimental game. It's possible that nothing as dire as three faction game balance came to mind as opposed to simply creating a fun experience.

i personally think it is more implausible yes

its ultimately all pretty up in the air though, game could end up going in a lot of different directions

My original role was posted in full in the game thread after I no longer possessed it.

I do not have, nor have I ever had, any ability remotely like a cult leader's.

I can't speak to anyone outside of the game thread at the moment, although using the Travel Agent ability would let me do so tonight

These claims are, unfortunately, probably not protected under my NLP due to the fact they indirectly are trying to confirm my alignment. But they are the truth. The only reason I voted amber at end of day and not tevish is because I'm miffed that we are probably dealing with a cult and I'm on the outside of it. It's ridiculous to assert that I am cult leader for that reason alone.

Honestly, I welcome death because then I can focus on KoD Must Die 2, but I can't just sit here and throw the game for Town because of my desire to focus on my game.

I think the wolves are showing their true colors. Amber's claim is simply unbelievable in the current setup, given what we know of it, and Tevish and KoD both coming to her rescue when they should know better is evidence that one or both of them may find themselves under her influence somehow.

Tevish, in fairness, is OMGUSing me, so that's not necessarily A.I., but KoD? Come on. He's taking Amber's side when he has agreed with my logic all game until now. Despite her claim not making sense. That's evidence he's probably been culted.

you're scumreading literally everyone on your wagon

Hey, the cult angle is your play. I'm just backing it.

I am afraid of ze possibility zat both Amber und Zinger are town. However, based on ze claims und discussions so far, I find Amber's claim a bit more believable. Therefore, I vill keep my vote on Zinger. Let's see how zis plays out und hope we make ze right decision.

Vote: Zinger

what makes you feel amber's claim is more believable than zingers?

Zere are a few reasons why I find Amber's claim more believable. First, Amber's explanation about surviving two attacks und being a doctor fits with ze lack of night kills ve have seen. It is a straightforward claim zat makes sense in ze context of ze game so far.

On ze other hand, ze idea of a cult und Zinger's potential involvement in it is something zat has been bothering me (more than Amber potentially lying).

So, based on ze overall context und ze claims made, I lean towards believing Amber over Zinger. But of course, zis is just my perspective, und I am open to hearing more arguments.

If Zinger flips as town, I would be open to voting for Tevish next.

Dark's vote breaks the tie. Time has expired for the runoff. Zinger is lynched. He was Town aligned Vanilla. With that matter resolved we can move on to other things.

It is now Night 3. You have 48 hours to plot, bequeath, act, or whatever have you.

End the Night

zinger willed me his role and it was just the one steve claimed, fwtw.

Dark Amber or something