It's hilarious that all it took for a wagon to start on me was a vote placed on Tevish and a refusal to explain why.

That wagon is weak and wreaks of opportunistic scum. Tevish is most pinging my scumdar at the moment, but I'll leave my vote on amber because Rag's logic swayed me.

It's after deadline anyways so

Ladies, gentlemen, and all other distinguished beings...we have ourselves a tie. Per the rules there will be a 24 hour runoff. You may ONLY vote for Amber or Zinger and you only have ONE vote so place it well.

Run it Back

Like we're Day 3... and all y'all have to go on is "he refused to tell us why he was voting"?

That's a shaky as heck premise to be your primary vote target on Day friggin' 3. So scummy.

Oh neat.

Vote: Amber

well since there's time now i guess claiming might help (?)
i woke up pretty close to deadline and figured claiming then wouldn't really do anything but now that there's time may as well get the info out there even if i die
i'm doctor and targeted myself last two nights hence why no kill and this is the conclusion you probably should have reached if you had applied occam's razor instead of hallucinating whatever this cult nonsense is


i don't think that's the only reason, to be fair

anyway, vote:zinger

It really is, Amber.

Also, a doctor who is able to self-target and can target the same player multiple nights in a row, in a game where there is already two jailkeepers, is just ridiculous.

You've also effectively claimed the ability to tell when you are shot. Doctors don't know when their protection is successful, and if they did it would make what is already a game-swinging role even stronger. I think a more likely case for your role is that you lose or gain something whenever you are killed, in such a way that you can infer that you were killed. The simplest case would be that you have limited lives, but it could also be that you have charges of an ability that are expended to save you but can be used for other things as well, or that you are told whatever abilities you are targeted with, and are either also bulletproof or gained your protection from some other mechanism.

In any case, Your claim doesn't explain how you had knowledge that you were hit, so i feel you're probably lying. Zinger is also right that having a full unrestricted doctor in a game this size is strong on its own, but is somewhat overkill when there is also a town jailer. (although again, mafia could be compensated by, for instance, having a lot of strongman shots, which they probably don't if we believe their kill was stopped twice).



i don't know why people have been voting you exactly but you've drawn a lot of heat all game so its not just your latest vote. They also can't all be scum. Wagons have been shifting quickly all game, which i imagine suggests a gamestate wherein most players don't have any strong preferences for most players. When everyone finds everyone similarly scummy, it doesn't take much for a wagon to form or shift.

[b]color=red]Vote: Amber[/color]

one of these days i'll get that right

idk what to tell you other than numbers decided to tell me that i was shot, though it's also very infer-able based on the knowledge that would have been available to me so i don't particularly think that's extra information
anyway as i said i don't really mind dying if you think it helps town, and i also don't know what to tell you other than yeah it's an unrestricted doctor role, i don't make the rules

We open wolfing now, I see?

I was voting you before, I don't see why I'd change.

amber's claim is one major development

Fully unrestricted doc in a game where roles never die is a lot to swallow, yeah. In fact, it could cause a stalemate if true.

Claiming to have been shot twice is a very odd move if he's just lying scum, though. That could be an attempt to get town pants after hits failed, but it seems a pretty high-risk call.

Of course, depending on how many roles muck with inheritance, any power could also be a Maf power.

I think Amber's a decent wagon, but I prefer Zinger, and certainly don't see how doing so would be construed as "open wolfing"

claiming to be shot is big town pants, and is the kind of funny gambit amber might appreciate

in a game with no kills it does appear to basically be a dead end strategy though. if there isn't a kill again tonight amber isn't in a good position tomorrow,

It looks like deadline keeps hitting while I'm at work so I may virtually not be around pending if I can be left alone in the office to actually post near EoD.


That said, I don't get why Amber is getting all the flak she is getting. I understand the argument (or multiple arguments kind of) given that there have been no deaths thus far and she's claimed to have been shot twice now. Now if you think Amber is exactly partners with Storm and has been no killing in order to claim she's been protected, then sure. There's at least merit to that line of thought that I can follow. Other scenarios, such as cult or talking about what kind of doc Amber is, I'm less keen on. For one, pertaining to cult, there's nothing to indicate, for a game of this size no less, that we'd be dealing with a cult (let alone full blown one as opposed to one with restrictions). And the size of the game has been an argument pertaining to Amber being an unrestricted doc (or other such limitations or variables attached as Rag has been arguing). Mind you all, mainly Rag, outguessing Numbers (something YOU hit me with earlier in the game) led to the eventual reveal of Storm having a similar to that of Abi's while, at the time, we had a no kill night. And lo and behold.

If Amber is scum here, then that means she'd have bussed Storm early and rather ruthlessly no less.

EoD 2 Final Vote


Amber could've voted elsewhere (or not at all) rather than running Storm up early with the other votes. This as opposed to you (Rag) hesitating on Storm until he claimed his role and you voted there. But now, given the run off between Amber and Zinger, you talk about Amber being an unrestricted doc in a game of this size being weird (despite, again, the warning you gave me about outguessing Numbers). I really wish this wasn't a contest between these two as opposed to Rag being voted out since I have no qualms with Zinger's play (outside of maybe not considering Amber as town core) and the kill-less nights honestly seem believable given Amber claiming to have been shot.



* * *

Regarding what Tevish said about roles mucking with inheritance, or the roles themselves given Zinger's thief role, that could be a balancing for the roles we're seeing thus far. After all, if Amber is being honest and not lying, having a town jailer, a mafia travel agent (I forget the word for the role), and a town doc just allows for the roles to switch despite where they started. Tea Party Prince role anyone? Has a similar tune to some of the roles from that game.


Given the confirmed existence of the thief role, and the fact we've had no kills twice now, I'm more inclined to believe Amber's claim than not.

Vote: Zinger

One more time though just to be sure.

I'll ***try*** to be around for deadline. No absolute promises.

Well actually, we only have one vote anyway so I guess it doesn't matter as far as votes go.

tevish claimed that their role is useless unless alignment changing mechanics exist which is evidence that a cult exists