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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:05 am 
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Sort of, yeah! It would be cool to make an inverse Chorus of the Conclave that gives your creature spells Defile.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 1:31 pm 
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Here's a mechanic that I brainstormed for a possible Return to Return to Kamigawa set. The kami of Kamigawa are mysterious beings whose motives can be obscure even under the best of circumstances. Their influence is often seen in the Utsushiyo, the physical realm, even if the kami behind it isn't.

Guiding Light

Enchantment (C)
Flying
When Guiding Light enters, you gain 2 life and scry 1.
Embody (: This enchantment becomes a Spirit creature in addition to its other types. Embody only as a sorcery.)
2/2

Kami of Unlikely Accidents

Enchantment (C)
Deathtouch
When Kami of Unlikely Accidents enters, target player sacrifices a creature.
Embody (: This enchantment becomes a Spirit creature in addition to its other types. Embody only as a sorcery.)
2/2

Gingko Rootwinder

Enchantment (C)
When Gingko Rootwinder enters, search your library for a basic land card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
Embody (: This enchantment becomes a Spirit creature in addition to its other types. Embody only as a sorcery.)
6/6

Gibbous Watcher

Enchantment (C)
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, scry 1.
Embody (: This enchantment becomes a Spirit creature in addition to its other types. Embody only as a sorcery.)
3/3

Pellucid Entangler

Enchantment (C)
When Pellucid Entangler enters, exile target creature an opponent controls for as long as you control Pellucid Entangler.
Embody (: This enchantment becomes a Spirit creature in addition to its other types. Embody only as a sorcery.)
3/4

Stoker of Anger

Enchantment (U)
Creatures you control have trample and haste.
Embody (: This enchantment becomes a Spirit creature in addition to its other types. Embody only as a sorcery.)
Tempers can be lost, but they can also be stolen.
5/3

Guider of Growth

Enchantment (U)
Whenever a land enters under your control, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
Embody (: This enchantment becomes a Spirit creature in addition to its other types. Embody only as a sorcery.)
2/2

Unseen Obstructor

Enchantment (U)
Creatures can't attack you or a permanent you control unless their controller pays for each attacking creature.
Embody (: This enchantment becomes a Spirit creature in addition to its other types. Embody only as a sorcery.)
1/5

Silent Chronicler

Enchantment (R)
When Silent Chronicler enters, draw two cards.
When Silent Chronicler becomes a creature, put a number of +1/+1 counters on it equal to the number of cards in your hand.
Embody (: This enchantment becomes a Spirit creature in addition to its other types. Embody only as a sorcery.)
0/1

Visit the Spirit Realm

Instant (C)
Exile target creature or enchantment you control, then return it to the battlefield under its owner’s control. Then if that permanent has Embody, you may have it become a Spirit creature in addition to its other types.
Draw a card.

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Last edited by Libe on Sun Jul 07, 2024 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2024 6:18 pm 
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Let's continue with the new guild mechanics I'm workshopping. Next is the Orzhov.

Thrull Beggars

Creature -- Thrull (C)
When Thrull Beggars enters, target opponent gets two debt counters. (At the beginning of their end step, a player with debt counters loses a debt counter and 1 life.)
Pity begets charity, so thrulls are created to be as pitiful as possible.
2/4

Crooked Moneylender

Creature -- Human Advisor (C)
When Crooked Moneylender enters, target player gets two debt counters. (At the beginning of their end step, a player with debt loses a debt counter and 1 life.)
Whenever an opponent loses a debt counter, you gain 1 life.
Fine print so small, only a faerie could read it.
1/2

Crushing Debt

Enchantment (U)
When Crushing Debt enters, target opponent gets three debt counters, then exile target creature they control for as long as they have a debt counter. (At the beginning of their end step, a player with debt counters loses a debt counter and 1 life.)

Angel of Obligations

Creature -- Angel (U)
Flying, vigilance
When Angel of Obligations enters, target player loses all debt counters. They lose life equal to the amount of counters lost in this way and you gain that much life.
They know the exact value of a soul, down to a fraction of a coin.
4/4

Debtholder Patriarch

Creature -- Spirit Advisor (M)
When Debtholder Patriarch enters, target opponent gets two debt counters.
Debtholder Patriarch has protection from players with debt counters.
"I don't own your soul, per se, but I do have a lien on it."
2/2

Notes:
-- The Orzhov's set mechanics so far have been mostly decent. Haunt was (and still is) a cool, flavorful mechanic with a lot of potential. I don't like the decision to only have it give you an extra ETB trigger when the haunted creature dies. That part isn't intrinsic to the mechanic itself and I find it really limiting.
-- Extort was fine. It's not exciting, but it does play well and gives the Orzhov a distinct playstyle. That's something I wanted to achieve with my mechanic as well.
-- Afterlife is quite good mechanically and it's a flavor win. I'm going to take this opportunity to mention that I had designed a mechanic almost identical a couple of years before -- ALSO called Afterlife, but mine only made a fixed one token when the creature died.
-- So, debt counters. Mechanically, you can think of them like the poison status effect you'd see in so many RPGs. It inflicts gradual damage over time, so you need to manage to stay alive long enough for it to do its work. The idea was to promote a grindy, defensive playstyle -- the leaders of the Orzhov are mostly ghosts so time means nothing to them. They know they'll win in the end, as long as they can stay in the game that long.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 1:49 am 
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I'm getting the sense of debt here flavorwise fully. Obviously societally we know that the point of debt is to the debilitate you; to enslave you and eventually bury you in such amounts of it that it cripples and overwhelms you (/s ...?). Here you simply lose 1 life each turn regardless of how much debt you have and also there isn't any payment per se ongoing.

I would have expected something along the lines of
Quote:
On the upkeep of player with debt, for each debt counter they have, they lose 1 life unless they pay . Then they lose one debt counter.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:18 pm 
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Tahazzar wrote:
I'm getting the sense of debt here flavorwise fully. Obviously societally we know that the point of debt is to the debilitate you; to enslave you and eventually bury you in such amounts of it that it cripples and overwhelms you (/s ...?).

Yes, precisely. It's doubly true in Ravnica, which I doubt has passed any legislation to curb predatory lending.

Tahazzar wrote:
Here you simply lose 1 life each turn regardless of how much debt you have and also there isn't any payment per se ongoing.

I would have expected something along the lines of
Quote:
On the upkeep of player with debt, for each debt counter they have, they lose 1 life unless they pay . Then they lose one debt counter.

I played with several versions of the mechanic before settling on this one, which is the simplest and the one that I believe would play the best. My issue with the version you proposed is that it snowballs insanely fast and kills someone very quickly unless they devote a lot of mana to paying off their debt... which, as we know, isn't very fun.

Here's my thoughts on the other versions I came up with:

(At the beginning of their end step, a player with debt counters loses a debt counter, then loses 1 life unless they pay .)
This version required that the player make installment payments towards their debt or lose life. It's my second favorite version, but it had two problems: One, the payment becomes less and less of an issue the longer the game drags on, so it doesn't really fit the playstyle I wanted to encourage. Second, the Azorius mechanic I came up with also includes a taxing component and I wanted them to be more distinct from each other.

(At the beginning of their end step, a player with debt counter loses 1 life unless they pay for each debt counter they have, then loses a debt counter.)
This one was okay; the cost varied on the amount of debt you had so you weren't incentivized to pay it when it was large. It also had the same problem of being worse in the late game.

(As long as a player has one or more debt counters, they can't win the game and their opponents can't lose the game. A player may pay as a sorcery to remove a debt counter from themselves.)
This was the original idea and it was obviously insane. I thought it was conceptually interesting but I knew it would never work, one of the reasons being that it was a mess in 3+ player games.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:44 pm 
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I really like debt counters. It's interesting that it has anti-synergy with itself, in that piling on more debt doesn't make your clock any faster, but since the payoff cards interact with debt specifically I think it works really nicely. It's like energy that's less insular.


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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:49 pm 
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Thanks! I appreciate the feedback.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:49 pm 
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Onward and downward to the Golgari!

Putrid Shambler

Creature -- Zombie (C)
Decompose (When this dies, you may exile it. When you do, return target creature card with lesser mana value from your graveyard to your hand.)
“Some look at a zombie and see an abomination; I look and see a walking sack of nutrients and fertilizer.”
—Ezoc, Golgari rot farmer

3/2

Deadbridge Centipede

Creature -- Insect (C)
When Deadbridge Centipede enters, put two +1/+1 counters on target creature.
Decompose (When this dies, you may exile it. When you do, return target creature card with lesser mana value from your graveyard to your hand.)
3/1

Lotleth Fleshgorger

Creature -- Zombie Troll (U)
When Lotleth Fleshgorger enters, you may sacrifice a creature. If you do, you draw two cards and lose 2 life.
Decompose (When this dies, you may exile it. When you do, return target creature card with lesser mana value from your graveyard to your hand.)
3/3

Mazirek's Reaper

Creature -- Insect Assassin (U)
When Mazirek's Reaper enters, mill four cards.
Decompose (When this dies, you may exile it. When you do, return target creature card with lesser mana value from your graveyard to your hand.)
"The city turns their back to the Swarm. We turn our blades to them."
4/3

Undercity Reclaimer

Creature -- Elf Druid (R)
At the beginning of your upkeep, mill a card.
You may play lands from your graveyard.
Decompose (When this dies, you may exile it. When you do, return target creature card with lesser mana value from your graveyard to your hand.)
2/2

Bioluminescent Crawler

Creature -- Insect (C)
Sacrifice Bioluminescent Crawler: You gain 1 life and surveil 1.
“Their light can be used to navigate, the shells can be stitched into armor, and they don’t taste too bad in a pinch.”
—Cevraya, Golgari shaman

1/1

Notes:
-- I love the Golgari! They're probably my favorite guild after the Izzet. Overall, they've done pretty well with their guild mechanics so far.
-- As we all know, Dredge has been problematic in the competitive scene. It's also my least favorite of the Golgari's three mechanics. It just feels like of... clunky? I can't quite put my finger on why I don't like it.
-- Scavenge is great all-around. Good name, good mechanic, plays well with the Golgari's themes. I also really like mechanics where the text doesn't change from card to card; it's just the context of the card that makes it different. My only complaint is they really played it too safe with Scavenge costs and none of the cards has really made much of a splash.
-- Undergrowth is solid. You can argue that it's a bit boring, and it is, but it fits its role well and encourages a sort of battle of attrition playstyle where you're happy to trade off your creatures because it makes your other cards stronger.
-- Decompose is a little like all three of those mechanics. The Golgari know that life and death are two parts in the same great cycle, and they celebrate that death only leads to new life.

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Last edited by Libe on Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:05 pm 
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I like the mechanic but I'm surprised you didn't mention Soulshift in your notes, since it's essentially a fixed version

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:10 pm 
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To be honest, I forgot about Soulshift. But yes! I accidently fixed that mechanic.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:38 pm 
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how on earth could you forget about Soulshift?? it's probably the most memorable mechanic of all time

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:48 pm 
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It's especially embarrassing considering my Kami of the Honored Dead back tattoo.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2024 6:52 pm 
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Not much to say about the Boros. They're soldier guys and they wear armor. Cool stuff.

Streetwise Veteran

Creature -- Human Soldier (C)
Mobilize 1 (When this attacks, create a tapped and attacking 1/1 white and red Soldier creature token. Exile it at end of turn.)
“The highbinders in Prahv think they’re the dispensers of justice. But the real work is done right here."
1/1

Garrison Sentinel

Creature -- Giant Soldier (U)
Vigilance
Mobilize 2 (When this attacks, create two tapped and attacking 1/1 white and red Soldier creature tokens. Exile them at end of turn.)
A giant's shield can protect his entire squadron at once.
3/5

Rowdy Irregulars

Creature -- Goblin Soldier (U)
Mobilize 3 (When this attacks, create three tapped and attacking 1/1 white and red Soldier creature tokens. Exile them at end of turn.)
With their ranks thinned by the Phyrexian invasion, the Boros Legion was happy to recruit anyone with a willing and able sword arm.
1/1

Battalion Leader

Creature -- Human Soldier (U)
Mobilize 1 (When this attacks, create a tapped and attacking 1/1 white and red Soldier creature token. Exile it at end of turn.)
: Attacking creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn.
"Stand tall. You're in the Legion."
3/3

Skyknight Ace

Creature -- Human Knight (U)
Flying, haste
Mobilize 1 (When this attacks, create a tapped and attacking 1/1 white and red Soldier creature token. Exile it at end of turn.)
"Fly true. All of Ravnica is watching us."
2/2

Ordruun Siegemaster

Creature -- Minotaur Soldier (R)
Mobilize 3 (When this attacks, create three tapped and attacking 1/1 white and red Soldier creature tokens. Exile them at end of turn.)
, Sacrifice another creature: ~ deals 2 damage to any target.
4/4

Wojek Exemplar

Creature -- Human Soldier (R)
Other creatures you control get +1/+1.
Mobilize 1 (When this attacks, create a tapped and attacking 1/1 white and red Soldier creature token. Exile it at end of turn.)
Bravery begets more bravery.
3/3

Notes:
--The Boros are probably my least favorite guild conceptually, but they've got a job to do and someone's got to do it.
-- Radiance is the worst guild mechanic and one of the worst mechanics of all time. I honestly don't know what WoTC was thinking. It doesn't fit the Legion at all and plays poorly (the positive effects shouldn't splash onto your opponents' creatures and the negative ones shouldn't hit yours). An all-around failure.
-- I actually really like battalion. It's simple, fits the guild, and plays well.
-- Mentor is also quite good for the same reasons that battalion is. That leaves the Boros with two strong mechanic and one that we'd rather forget about.
-- My mechanic is similarly pretty simple -- the Boros Legion is known for being, well, a Legion. They can solve a lot of problems by just throwing enough guys with swords at it. A few 1/1s aren't super impactful on their own, but they can get through chip damage and they can be made genuinely useful with Kabira Takedown, Burn Bright, and anthem-type effects.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:51 pm 
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Sorry it took me a few days to get this next guild mechanic up. I got stuck waiting in a really long line at the BMV.

Novice Lawmage

Creature -- Human Wizard (C)
When Novice Lawmage enters, create a Red Tape token attached to up to one target nonland permanent you don't control. (They’re auras that stop it from attacking, blocking, or activating abilities. A player may destroy a Red Tape by paying as a sorcery.)
"Article 1441, section 32-B states that, um, you can't do that."
2/2

Arrestor Griffin

Creature -- Griffin (C)
Flying
When Arrestor Griffin enters, create a Red Tape token attached to up to one target nonland permanent. (They’re auras that stop it from attacking, blocking, or activating abilities. A player may destroy a Red Tape by paying as a sorcery.)
“Suspect apprehended. Pickup required.”
–Jova, Azorius lawmage

2/3

Ticket Taker

Creature -- Human Advisor (U)
Whenever a creature enters under an opponent's control, create a Red Tape token attached to it. (They’re auras that stop it from attacking, blocking, or activating abilities. A player may destroy a Red Tape by paying as a sorcery.)
"How may I assist? Ah, uh huh. You're in the wrong line, I'm afraid."
1/2

Form a Queue

Sorcery (U)
Choose up to three target creatures. Create a Red Tape token attached to the first, two Red Tape tokens attached to the second one, and three Red Tape tokens attached to the third. (They’re auras that stop it from attacking, blocking, or activating abilities. A player may destroy a Red Tape by paying as a sorcery.)

Living Law

Creature -- Elemental (U)
Flying
When Living Law enters, create three Red Tape tokens attached to target nonland permanent.
As long as an Aura you control is attached to a permanent you don't control, Living Law has hexproof.
4/4

Arbiter of the Senate

Creature -- Sphinx (M)
Flying
When Arbiter of the Senate enters, for each nonland permanent target opponent controls, create a Red Tape token that's attached to it.
Whenever an Aura you control is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it was attached to a permanent you don't control, draw a card.
5/5

Notes:
-- I'm not really a U/W type of player, but I've always had a soft spot for the Azorius, or at least their flavor. There's something I really enjoy about the idea of showing up to a wizards' duel with the power of bureaucracy.
-- Let's review their mechanics, starting with forecast. It was certainly... something. There's a decent well of design space available for the mechanic, tying the forecast effect into the card's other abilities somehow. But the mechanic misses for me by not feeling very Azorius in flavor or mechanics. Pretty meh.
-- Then we have detain, which my mechanic is really just another version of. Detain itself works flavorfully for the Azorius. But it's mechanically pretty boring and you can't really build around it like I feel you should be able to with a guild mechanic; a detain deck wouldn't "do" anything so much as it would prevent your opponents from doing things. Maybe that's a good thing because it's very Azorius. My mechanic has the same issue, but I'd argue less so.
--Lastly we have addendum, an ability so unremarkable that I couldn't even think of a card with the effect off the top of my head (thanks, Scryfall!). This mechanic didn't really take off, either. W/U decks don't really want to play things during their main phases so none of these cards saw much use as far as I know. Flavorfully, it's... eh. There's not really any flavor to playing things on your main step, is there?
-- I don't hate any of the Azorius mechanics but I don't really like any of them, either. They deserve better. Or maybe they don't -- W/U control is pretty annoying to play against.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 7:34 pm 
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Gonna post some randos from my card file.

Snuffer of Hope

Creature -- Elemental Nightmare (R)
When Snuffer of Hope enters, each opponent discards two cards.
At the beginning of each opponent’s upkeep, if that player has one or fewer cards in hand, they lose 2 life. This ability also triggers if Snuffer of Hope is in your graveyard.
Evoke
4/4

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 8:11 pm 
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you reminded me of one time in like 2008 where I made a terrible card using 'red tape counters' and submitted it to a razorborne contest. it deservedly got a bad grade, but for some reason I thought it was a good card, and engaged in a humiliating argument about how I deserved a better score

sorry razor

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 8:27 pm 
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We've all argued with razor about how he wrongly scored our cards. No shame in that.

Do you remember what the red tape counters did?

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 9:05 pm 
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I don't remember for sure. my vague recollection was that the creature applied a Propaganda-esque effect to anything with a red tape counter on it, or maybe it stopped them from untapping? It wasn't necessarily a bad idea, but my card was very clunky

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 12:16 am 
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Libe wrote:
We've all argued with razor about how he wrongly scored our cards. No shame in that.
wrongly scoring cards is my passion.

:duel:

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 Post subject: Re: Hoard of Notions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2024 6:28 pm 
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razorborne wrote:
Libe wrote:
We've all argued with razor about how he wrongly scored our cards. No shame in that.
wrongly scoring cards is my passion.

:duel:

It shows.

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