What are my contradictions KoD? Because if you gave a damn you'd ask me to explain them.

Spoilers: I can justify anything I've said this game.

I have no need for AtE when my arguments are already airtight, it's just that most of the players right now have got their heads stuck so far in the sand that they can't see that it is close to impossible for me to be a wolf here and the only reason for that is zero respect for me / refusal to read my posts. I'm constantly being talked about and not talked to. I've asked multiple times for people to explain their town reads to me so I know why there's a super arbitrary me vs Tevish thing going on right now. I really want to know what some slots have going on here that's more clearing than me literally shifting the vote from the player who most scumread me and onto a wolf!!!

Surely you can see why I'm annoyed here? Just read the actual logic of my posts please and don't just say "well actually AtE" because my logic is completely on point here and yet again being ignored so my post can be nit picked for something unrelated.

Like... how much overwhelming evidence do I need to give people here before they consider they might actually be wrong?

Tevish needs to talk about a world where I'm not a wolf because spoilers: I'm not.

Had some tinfoil about Dusky being a busser (I've lost to much stronger busses) but the fact that they're the only ayer not pushing the status quo makes me pretty much certain they're just town and I'd be willing to lose to that.

So allow me to once again demonstrate why I'm just town here:

This is the vote count on page 24 as KoD votes Faerie:

Official vote count

Zinger (1): Tevish
Faerie (3): Silverfish, Silverfish, KoD
Captan_Lunch (1): Darkstar
KoD (3): Zinger, Legacy of Smiles, Faerie

Not voting: Captan_Lunch, Duskyblue

Do you want to know who is not in danger of dying here? CL. Not only has CL voted and not only would I be capable of switching my vote to Faerie but nobody is even talking about a vote.

FURTHERMORE look at the player voting CL in this vote count. It's Dark, my partner, and a player who had me as lock town. Dark had already agreed to move their vote earlier to me in neighbour chat if I wanted them to because we both agreed to save Faerie over KoD. This might be referenced in the thread somewhere. But anyway, Dark had me as clear here and was the ONLY CL voter at this point. There is NO discussion or consideration about anybody besides KoD and Faerie going over that day and both had large wagons.

What does this mean? Captain Lunch was in ZERO danger of going over D2 before I posted.

Now, onto page 24.

I posted expressing a willingness to move to CL above KoD as long as Faerie was not the lead wagon (ie, a request to ask other people to move to CL with me at the same time). So yes, I started the vote movement onto CL here.


Then, Dusky votes for CL. That leaves us with the following votecount.

Zinger (1): Tevish
Faerie (3): Silverfish, Silverfish, KoD
Captan_Lunch (2): Darkstar, Duskyblue
KoD (3): Zinger, Legacy of Smiles, Faerie

At this point, I move my vote onto CL too and make CL the joint largest wagon. Now obviously Faerie shifts votes to self preserve and Faerie had expressed interest in moving again due to my original invitation to move.

So yes, due to my intervention, CL went from completely under the radar to the single largest wagon. There was no wolf motive in doing this. This was all due to my original attempt to shift the votes.

I had zero. Zero. Zero. Reason to draw attention to my utr wolf buddy during a KoD/Faerie argument (and might I add here that KoD scumread me and was generally being unreasonable... I would want his head as a wolf for sure) when CL had no chance of going over otherwise. Like, my actions condemned CL here and there is absolutely no argument against it.

(In case you're wondering what prompted my actions BTW it was KoD's self meta post which I found very towny as well as Dark having KoD as a weak town lean).

And the worst part is: even when I organised the movement onto CL (which was obviously going to be successful when a lot of players scumread them and they weren't around to defend themselves) I didn't even move my vote there first. If I had TMI that CL was a wolf and wanted to bus, I could have easily gotten all the town cred Dusky did instead by just being the first to vote there. I didn't even need to organise any vote movement because I would have been more than happy for a KoD or Faerie flips as a wolf.

Even if I were a wolf here and pulled off the mastermind and totally useless bus of the century for literally no reason, are you saying the next night I killed my partner (who repeatedly had me as town locked and was willing to follow my votes) AND then, after senselessly and unnecessarily budding a partner I stop saying the game and immediately incriminate myself by not showing up?

Like, for me to be a wolf I must have been an absolute inconsiderate **** to CL to not only organise a flash wagon onto them but then senselessly shoot my own partner who had me as lock town for zero benefit (like literally: name one thing I would accomplish from that Dark kill while widely townread already) but then I would also have to not show up the next day and needlessly incriminate myself for no reason.

If I bussed CL so compmetely unnecessarily and was that disrespectful post-bus that I refused to play and outed myself as a wolf... then I would probably expect them to blacklist me from future games for being such a disrespectful failure of a teammate.

Like... how much overwhelming evidence against me being a wolf do you need here?

Add this onto my claim, which is now verified and never belongs to a wolf.

Add this onto my drop in activity which is pretty much only able to be explained by being unenthusiastic to may after Dark died.

Look at the absurd nonsense I would have have to done to bus CL. CL was in zero danger until I acted on D2.

Think about the Dark kill and how absurdly bad that kill would have been from my perspective as a wolf when Dark was literally willing to follow my votes.

Add this onto my damn posting and how clear it is that I'm town from what I've said in the thread. There's a reason I was widely townread for most of the game.

Every game, there is a burden of proof that I feel obliged to give in order to make myself impossible to miselimate as town. This is that burden. There is no longer any reasonable way you can believe that I am a wolf.

If you don't think Tevish is an absolute lock wolf then for please answer my questions and help me solve this game.

Also want to add that I strongly softed my role D1 onto that list.

Umm, immune to what sort of actions? Racing actioins or night actions? And does it have any flavour to it as to why it makes sense for your character?

And which two are your top 2 lynches? I believe you earlier said Tevish was your top suspect. Is that still the case?

Legacy of Smiles:
Your progression on the CL wagon gives you strong town points, but it's just not the irrefutable evicence as you make it out to be.

This:
I looked back, an what you said "I would entertain a CL counterwagon". Entertain. That is NOT a request for other people to move the vote to CL at all. You immediately followed up with "I mean if CL is a wolf and their partner was just lazy or inactive them the whole case for them is in tatters", suggesting why there might in fact NOT be worthwhile case against CL. Yes, you brought it up and I give you points for that, but in no way did you request a move to CL, and you make it seem a lot stronger than what it really was. If we are being precise, Faerie asked 'Why not switch to CL" before your post, so one could also argue she started the idea.


From your recent posts I get a townie vibe an earnest willingness to solve from you, but it is hard for me to take your word when you are twisting things to make yourself look 100% confirmed when the reality was less clear.

Also remembered this when looking through your posts: You said "If CL is town I know their role and that's why I want them to claim." What did you mean by this / how did you know?

In any case - you aren't convinced Tevish is a wolf. If it was purely up to you, who would you lynch now?

Some things to add:

- The important thing is the "as long as Faerie doesn't go over bit". It's admittedly implicit but this is me saying "other people need to move with me too because otherwise we're going to split the votes and put Faerie in the lead and none of us here want that". It was obvious that people were going to agree to move because I was the only

- When I talk about "the case in tatters" I mean the TOWN case. I was referring to people saying "CL must be town because people let them be tied at EoD". I was saying that the reason we were town clearing CL didn't matter: ie I was saying we should vote CL (despite KoD's protests that the slot was town).

I think if you read it with that context in mind, it's pretty obvious that I'm saying "the case for CL being town doesn't matter as much as we've made out. I'd be willing to move to CL but I need people to move with me so Faerie isn't put in the lead".

And again, if I were a wolf milking a bus for cred I would have benefitted so much more from saying that explicitly I know! But the message is there, implicitly, and you can see that people did react to it at the time (where do you think Faerie's comment came from? It was a response to my post).

- Also want to take this opportunity to say that I was semi-present at EoD1 and even though I didn't cast a vote before I had to leave for irl reasons, I still had opportunity to save or bus CL. It's obvious I would have voted way sooner if my scumbuddy was at all in danger ie. I had strong opinions on where to vote.

- I'm not twisting things (although I'm really trying to sell myself here, not particularly to you but I think there are a couple of players in this game who would almost rather lose the game than admit I'm towny AF right now and I'm playing hardball to try to get through to them... like if I am the game losing miselim I want to be able to say "I cleared myself, misreading me is on you all"). I think it's more obvious I'm not twisting things with what I've said above. Like, it's not explicit if you're seeing it without remembering the exact context but absolutely reading what I said above and looking at people's reactions you can see I'm encouraging them to move to CL).

- Oh yeah that knowing their role was a bit of a gambit because I thought they were town at the time but I was fairly confident from the comment they made D1 (about needing to win the race) that they were the town role that needed to win (since I was the town role that needed to lose / protect the winners). So I thought "CL must be something like a cop role that can only work in first place" or something and if they had claimed something like that I would have been very confident they were town because of synergy with my role.

- I'm not convinced Tevish is a wolf entirely but I think they're the most likely option by far. I'm just annoyed that people are refusing to talk about anyone else even when I'm just asking them to go through why they clear each individual person. If I had to pick a third, it would be Faerie. Wolf-KoD probably doesn't shoot Silver unless they had some sort of falling out that made Silver drop their lock town read on KoD. You're pretty much always town now. Silver I town read from them being much more solvey than I remember their last wolf game being as well as their role probably just belonging to town but I don't have any idea why other people are clearing them.

Like don't get me wrong, it's hard to see a wolf world without Tevish but people are absolutely refusing to discuss anything that is not me or them and the fact that I don't have any particular reason to think the slot is a wolf surely besides process of elimination doesn't make me feel great.

Like, if somebody just wolf cased Tevish even then I would feel a lot happier but I don't see anybody actively scumreading them and that's a really bad thing to see when you're town, the entire thread has given up and is flipping you off and has decided that if you're town they're a lock wolf.

This is also the reason I'm asking for more from Tevish. Like if they're town, they need to put some actual work in because they're setting us up to lose the game to some random deep wolf.

They're in the same situation as me so I really don't know why they don't care! (Admittedly, I find this wolfy of Tevish that they're willing to just completely bet the game on me being a wolf but a lot of their responses to me clearly show they aren't reading my posts but it's still like... 65% confidence Tevish is the last wolf right now? I don't want to roll over and bet the game on that).

If Tevish flips wolf today then me trying now is honestly no big deal and maybe I look a little silly for all of this but that's ok. But I wouldn't forgive myself if I did nothing and was the game ending miselimination tbh.

Ooooh! Okay, I read your CL comment totally differently even back then (could be a language issue), but I see what you meant now. I feel much better about that now.
And the CL comment makes sense taking into account your role. Seems like you like to gamble...

I think most of us ARE scum reading Tevish. Or at least strongly considering. You were by now means the frontrunner at the beginning of the day. It's just that Tevish's comeback sounded really reasonable. I also think he should be present more now, though...

I town read KoD because a wolf with a double hit seems too strong AND I can't see him hitting Silver as mafia after Silver already told him he was bullet proof. Would be a crucial missed hit. And wouldn't make sense to kill his Kart buddy who was very supportive of him. Other than that, I felt he was less aggressive than he would be as mafia.

Other than that, I don't have town locks. My current suspicion goes Tevish - Faerie - LoS/Silver - KoD

For Silver, I am honestly mostly basing it on others, and the fact he was so concerned about trusing his Kart partner (could be all made up, I know). KoD said he volunteered his role from the start, which I see as town like, too. But I don't have anything concrete proving to me he's town.

Faerie... I wasn't a fan of her early days style / logic but later got the impression she was genuine. The role-provig definitely helped, and what Tevish told us about their chats. However, I still find that whole 'returning' ability thing was super weird and convenient... I am not convinced that is the actual role. Who was even around back then who could have stolen Zinger's ability? Nobody claimed a role like that, and the ones missing whose abilities we don't know is Darkstar I believe... did he mention his abilities? And CL, but then he likely didn't also have the block...

Tevish has been joining 'easy' wagons and was sometimes suspicously quiet (which he blames on real life, but can't know if that's true). He does seem very reasonable. The problem is, that is what he was like in the last game I saw him as mafia, too... And I can see his ability fitting mafia.

Refusal? I've been sitting over here going back and forth over both of you while also keeping Faerie in mind and still coming to a conclusion that she isn't the wolf. No, it isn't a refusal on my part so much so as you dislike where I have led myself based on what both you and Tevish have been saying and have done thus far into the game. That is completely disingenuous and doesn't necessarily want to make me reconsider your perspective in case you're just being obtuse to force your perspective down my throat.

Quite frankly, as I've already assessed, I don't need your perspective at this point. My PoE is exactly you and Tevish. We have one mislynch available to us, then we have to hit the last scum. Since I'm convinced the last scum is among you or Tevish, it strictly doesn't matter if I put a blind fold on with ear plugs and play pin the noose on the scum wrt to you and Tevish. That's just something you're going to have to accept since your arguments to convince me; assuming that's what you're even trying to do as opposed to berate me into submission for your PoV.

And no, I hardly will feel bad about my approach because:

1. Unlike you, I've actively been participating in this game and caring much more so than you. That's evident because, by your own admission you've apparently have not cared that much about this game. That is, until you are being considered for PoE and then you miraculously decide to start caring so much as to flood the thread with post after post going, "Look at me! Engage me! I'm obv town! There is proof!" Even though your proof amounts to nothing more than WIFOM that you're trying to drown us with (the epitome of which is what Dusky quoted you on wrt to CL).

2. Even if I do cause us to lose because of my stubbornness (which is hardly evident given my own perspective), should you be town, then you should feel the way you're trying to make me feel due to your approach and attitude. You want me to consider your perspective seriously (even though I already have)? Well, you're certainly going to get ***no sympathy*** from me given your approach. Especially when I've done my due diligence in assessing not just you but Tevish and Faerie and coming to a conclusion that I am relatively confident in (no thanks to your progression concerning yourself might I remind you).

And if we're going to rank the importance of the votes on CL, then here is how I'd rank them:

Dusky
No one else

Because assessing just the votes themselves, Faerie, out of self preservation, would be better served in pushing along with a group on CL if it helped defuse any tension between her and I given the wagons prior to that point amounted to two votes on Zinger and Faerie and, possibly given your attitude towards me that day, three votes on me. Considering at that point I was ok with viewing CL as town (despite my 180 switch onto CL), it is just as likely too that I could have just stuck a vote onto Faerie with Silver giving 3 votes at Faerie to at least rand it (Faerie over CL given the arguments Faerie was fielding that I had commented on).

As much as you keep trying to play up your votes importance, it just simply isn't as Faerie had every incentive to swing elsewhere if it guaranteed avoiding her lynch or at least giving her a chance.

And if I consider factors on the outside: again, there is the issue of how you strictly said you would bus CL only to later come back and contradict yourself by saying you wouldn't, unless it was completely out of necessity (WIFOM at best).

So no, I'm giving you no pass here.


Smiles


Cool. Is your goal to convince me then? Because you seem incapable of that. Tevish has done a better job of convincing me because, and let's face it, his arguments are a lot better than what you're managing to do here.

Oh, and I did give a damn back when, you know, I was commenting on the stuff and quoting them. But hey, I get it. You don't concern yourself in reading my walls. I know because I took my time to read spec chat, Wiml. I know your perspective wrt to how I play. I know your criticisms. And despite knowing all that, I give your posts the time of day when I read them and consider what you're saying. But you know what the hard truth of the matter is? Your arguments are not good. You can decree me as having bad town play all day if you like, but ***YOU*** are the cause of the reads you are getting on yourself. That is not my doing no matter how much you would like to think so. So maybe reconsider your approach (especially if you're doing -- though if you're town, then perhaps tweak how you approach others if you want them to believe you/convince them/want them on your side).

Smiles


Why would I care to discuss how I'm town reading Silver or Dusky or Faerie with you? Because I'm certainly not going to take your word into consideration regarding them since, you know, you're not them. You should be more concerned with making yourself appear townie -- oh right, you are, but only in the vein of either being super defensive (ie. claiming to be the reason for CL's wagon when you're not) or in searching for reasons to discredit other reads (like Silver as an example).

Your progression throughout this entire game isn't as clean as you'd have yourself believe. Prior to the CL vote, I had reason to not really like your positions wrt to me, but given Faerie and Zinger I had other issues to focus on when assessing players -- all while you just sat back and poked at me. And despite your dislike towards me, you, as Dusky pointed out, opted for being ok with CL going over despite never doing the switch yourself. Dusky being the one to cast the vote to get things started only allowed for you to join it without necessarily screwing over the vote against Faerie/Zinger.

After all, again, you saw how stubborn I was in the champs game with the likes of my thunderdome on Marl and my unwillingness to vote onto some other wagon of someone I viewed to be town (like CL). So far be it from me to neglect that you, potentially, switched to CL with the intention that even if he died, you'd still be a part of the wagon to claim credit (like you're trying to make yourself the sole reason for the switch occurring). That, or CL lives through a rand and you can still fall back on him.

Regardless of your explanations, you just do not sit well with me compared to Faerie. With Tevish though, as I said he's just too agreeable with me. But if I look at it the way you're trying to portray things, then I have no reason to consider Tevish. Instead, it's just you. Maybe Faerie. Dusky never earns my vote here nor does Silver.

And I bet you're going to focus on why not Silver if anything.


Smiles


Well, you couldn't see why I was annoyed with Faerie all those days ago with her logic progression. So, no, I can't see why you're annoyed here other than being frustrated scum that is getting PoEed.

Smiles


1. Why would Tevish talk about a world where you're not a wolf? Unlike you, he's actually been paying attention to what I've been saying (lol, this being said to the person is annoyed that he's not being paid attention to ha).

2. Do you actually have overwhelming evidence instead of the events you assert clear you when they don't?



Again, your actions did not push CL. That is strictly Dusky due to actually casting the vote. All you did was follow suit after expression a willingness to do so.

And as much as you keep talking about what you'd prefer as a wolf, I again say WIFOM as we don't know what you'd do as scum. It's not uncommon for a power wolf to throw their partner under the bus and gain credit for it, and that's what you're trying to do here. Not so much that you didn't cast the first vote (that's you hedging), but yes so much as after expressing the interest, you moved to follow suit after one vote (Dusky's).


The only thing I am wrong about here is the amount of votes CL had as I had forgotten Dark was even on CL prior to the switch that had occurred. That secures Faerie safely against a rand like I was thinking, but it by no means proves, overwhelmingly or otherwise, that you are not scum, Smiles. The point about busing still stands as does the point about your apparent contradictory statements regarding busing CL or your interest in this game and your use of WIFOM to try and force your perspective that you're cleared town.



You verified that you drive poorly and get hit by things which also causes your partner to suffer position-wise. That hardly proves your town (or that the role belongs to a town slot).

Absurdity is in the eye of the beholder. A powerwolf is a powerwolf for a reason.

A drop in activity doesn't break one way or another for your alignment. CL is proof of that. If anything, your lack of interest in the game followed by being a potential PoE candidate today which fueled this activity from you is interesting (and contradictory given your distinct description of not caring about the game).

Killing your partner and claiming it is bad. Powerwolf.

I guess being "widely" town read only to not be town read anymore struck a nerve for you being able to coast to the end, eh?

Since Tevish is in my PoE, it hardly matters if he is lock wolf or one lynch away from being resolved. Him being ok with that, while maybe a good deflection, reflects well on him compared to your reaction.

Ha ha, yeah, sure.

Let me guess, should you survive today and get to LyLo are you going to push Dusky as your tinfoil? Because ha.

My current plan is to self vote and to blame you for the loss tbh.

Yeah and I think looking back at the votes earlier, Tevish and Silver(?) were the only players who had a poor voting record there.

I think Faerie could have put some effort into to saving CL when I impmicitly suggested a move.

Remembered that KoD was apparently also the person who gave Silver the double vote and if that's the case then having that in addition to a vigi on a single wolf is pretty lol.

So yeah this mostly leads me to being happier on Tevish tbh. I feel happy with my reasons on other slots right now.

Fwiw I'm just going to flat out ignore KoD and let him gamethrow of it comes to it because I'm not talking to a player who refuses to reevaluate people in F6 because "good vibes" and "I feel guilty about vigging them".

Like even if Tevish is a wolf then this is still terrible town play and you should reflect on it tbh.

Optimal strategy if tomorrow goes into final 4 is to vote for sleep / no elimination but I'm not going to be playing at that point until KoD dies.