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 Post subject: mono card
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:49 pm 
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you enter a tournament
your deck can have any number copies of any basic lands in any proportions and any number of copies of any one card. that is all your deck can have
you will playing against decks constructed by the same principle
battle of wits is banned
all 1 mana burn spells able to deal 3 to the opponent with no extra cost or condition are banned

what's your deck?

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:13 pm 
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60 chancellors of the dross

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:34 pm 
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Mown wrote:
60 chancellors of the dross

hmm that's technically valid
but we should obviously ban that too

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:41 am 
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This reminds me of 3cm.

All the Chancellors are probably busted. Dross is an OTK, Spires mills enough that I think most decks will die, Forge is a hard 7 power on the board with haste t1, Tangle casts itself for a 4-turn clock with vigilance and... I guess Annex is probably okay since it can't manifest any sort of wincon and a massive tax could be eaten with a counter.

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:46 am 
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40 Gempalm Incinerator
20 Mountain

Folds to Elesh Norn pretty easily, but at least it has bodies and removal (which seems like it would be the defining trait of this format).

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:18 am 
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Alright then.
~16 Mountains
~44 Surging Flame

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:17 am 
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Mown wrote:
Alright then.
~16 Mountains
~44 Surging Flame

I like how you think :D Though I have a vague urge of bopping you over the head with an Anime-esque paper fan.

(you do get countered extremely hard by Weather the Storm though)

1HKOs aside, Steel Overseer and 20 basics at random might be fun. Tricky to keep track of all the counters piling up, maybe.

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:06 pm 
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angel's grace seems a broken choice.

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:36 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
angel's grace seems a broken choice.

Annoying, sure, but broken? I imagine you want to play like 80+ cards to auto-win by mill vs smaller decks? ...ok that's horrible :D

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:25 pm 
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I like how you think :D

I'm mostly working on autopilot, it's not the first "what if no 4xlimit" discussion I've seen.
Not entirely sure what I'd do after the somewhat obvious chancellor, surging flame, and Meddling Mage. But needless to say, Bolt.dec or BattleOfWits.dec aren't a menace.
There are some stall tactics, like Angel's Grace or Runed Halo, but I think most decks can probably operate on effectively infinite deck-size, so they risk losing to being on the draw against any deck.

Cabal Therapist is pretty funny.

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:13 pm 
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Yeah, deck size weirds things out, I think we can assume to force a 60 card hard rule to avoid the laziest goldfish tactics. The therapist sounded like meddling mage's smellier brother until I realized the meddler has to wait for the opponent to play while two therapists reveal the hand with a random name then purge it on turn two no matter the matchup.

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:31 pm 
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I don't know if there's really any legitimate matchup where Therapist wins and Mage doesn't, it's pretty prone to losing to topdecks given that it's just a bunch of 1/1's, although they do have menace. If it's a BO3 then MM can potentially just take the two other games, not sure if that's a given.

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:24 am 
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dream twist might be fast enough to churn through a lot of decks

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:58 am 
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Memnite swarming?

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:29 am 
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Memnite swarming?

Definitely scary. Wins vs Meddling if on the play, which is a pretty impressive notion. Hard countered by Devoted Retainer.

Incremental aggros (with board's power in parenthesis)
-Not sure about the numbers, but Joraga Warcaller looks interesting and pretty flexible. Loses to Memnite on the spot tho, I think.
-2/2 cmc2 Lords effectively add power equal to 2+other creatures, evenly distributed (0,2,3+3,5+5+5+5...). Notable ones are Pack Leader (immortal when attacking), Elvish Clancaller (options for late game), Supreme Phantom (less powerful, but tougher and flying),
-King of the Pride (0,0,2,4,6, but halved toughness), Knight Exemplar and Imperious Perfect, Merfolk Sovereign, Captivating Vampire are bigger lords that I think deserve mention.
-Bramblewood Paragon falls back quickly but gives trample (0,2,2+3,2+3+4+5...) Kazandu Blademaster does the same but with vigilance and first strike, which works better as a deterrent. Champion of the Parish has also lackluster scaling but costs 1 less. Oona's Blackguard forces discard!
-Cleric of Life's Bond scales better than paragons but worse than lords, but gives life to help race (0,2,3+3,4+4+3+3, and total +6 life)
-Thalia's Lieutenant starts smaller, but everyone scales by 2 when a new one enters! (0,1,1+3,1+3+5+7...)

(edited numbers because cmc2 drop two bodies in turn 4, duh)

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Last edited by Huey Nomure on Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:26 am 
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I'm amazed you left out relentless rats.
Especially given the old meme about it.

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:18 am 
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Hehe, redundant. Also, suboptimal by any measure except MAYBE the memetic :D

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:09 am 
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46 x Spore Frog
14 x Forest

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:40 pm 
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Not sure about fog-based strategies in 60-cards decks because you protect yourself for 46 rounds and decks have 53-52 rounds in them if no mulligans are taken. I don't think you have a way to survive the other 7 turns against any form of decent aggro (a vanilla lord setup kills you by round 5 without blockers, and memnites slaughter you by turn 4), and by deliberately mulligan to improve your chances you may lose by drawing too many lands and skipping a fog. In the chance of BO3 your opponent will also take 1 or 2 random mulligans to have more turns before milling themselves.

Oh, a point not inherently against the strategy but Captivating Vampire steals your frogs, so that specific card (while very cute) may not be optimal?

Ok, so far the options have been:
-Breaking the game by winning by turn 3 or less: Chancellors, Surging Flame (probably bannable cards)
-Card-naming hate: Meddling Mage (also bannable)
-Turbofog (dubious strategy IMO, but I welcome numbers on this front)
-Memnite swarm
-Quadratic aggro (quick and slow lords)
-Dream Twist

Let's check the numbers on the last one. On the play with no mulligans.
T1: Island, 1Twist. Land:1 Hand:5 Grave:1 Mill:3
T2: Island, 2Tw. Land:2 Hand:3 Grave:3 Mill:9
T3: Island, 3Tw. Land:3 Hand:0 Grave:6 Mill:18
T4: Island, 2Flashbacks. Land:4 Hand:0 Grave:4 Mill:24
...yeah, that's too slow for aggro. Stomps on any fog no questions asked though.

Oh, Icehide Golem stands between memnites and lords.

Edit: Memnite vs vanilla lords with decent draws for lords is won by who's on the play, Cleric of Life's Bond gives enough life buffer to survive even on the draw... if you get the right lands. So the aggro ladder is something like Memnite, Icehide Golem, Cleric of Life's Bond, Pack Leader, Captivating Vampire?

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 Post subject: Re: mono card
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:19 pm 
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500x Black Lotus
I wouldn't do well in the tournament, but I'd get over it pretty quickly

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