It is currently Sun Dec 01, 2024 5:58 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:19 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2021-02-08

In this article, and articles previously, Mark talks about why Giant Ox (and other creatures) that have giant in their name aren't typed as giants.
His argument being that giant can be both a noun and an adjective. It's the same argument he's always made and I can understand his approach.

But there's a rebuttal I feel compelled to make.
If the issue is that you have to be a Giant for the creature type... Define what a Giant is and tell me how that's different than being giant.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:03 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 3845
I mean MTG's giants, with few exceptions, tend to be pretty consistently portrayed as basically almost-elemental-but-not-quite humanoids.

_________________
Matahouroa
Planeswalker's Guide
The Story

My Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/Carliro
Image

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DKFQ7Q38/ a book based on Lusitanian Mythology


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:13 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Sure, there's an argument to be made for things like Kaldheim's giants and the Titans cycle.

But then there's Lorwyn, Ravnica, and tons of examples of basically just... Big people.
Now, in that it's kind of the same argument over quibbling about dwarves or elves, but at least there's a consistency to them most often that makes them unique.

Other than their size, and possibly lifespan, giants are radically inconsistent.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:22 am 
Offline
YMtC Champ '11
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
YMtC Idol Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 10665
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/my/mine/himself
I mean MTG's giants, with few exceptions, tend to be pretty consistently portrayed as basically almost-elemental-but-not-quite humanoids.

The "few exceptions" being probably at least every other giant, including almost the entirety of Lorwyn?

Giants are a race like any other, what that entails depends on the plane. You don't become a giant by enlarging yourself any more than you become an elemental by setting yourself on fire (although if mtg made a card that was an enlarged human it would probably have the giant type).

_________________
[Warchief] Custom EDH Project
you're like the kind of person who would cast Necropotence irl


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:28 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Hell, for that matter, what actually makes Jareth a giant?
By all rights he's a cat construct.

And yet Iona, who is skyscraper sized isn't a giant angel?

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:10 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 3845
Mown wrote:
I mean MTG's giants, with few exceptions, tend to be pretty consistently portrayed as basically almost-elemental-but-not-quite humanoids.

The "few exceptions" being probably at least every other giant, including almost the entirety of Lorwyn?

Giants are a race like any other, what that entails depends on the plane. You don't become a giant by enlarging yourself any more than you become an elemental by setting yourself on fire (although if mtg made a card that was an enlarged human it would probably have the giant type).


Lorwyn is very much the exception. Right after we're followed by elemental giants in Shadowmoor.

_________________
Matahouroa
Planeswalker's Guide
The Story

My Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/Carliro
Image

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DKFQ7Q38/ a book based on Lusitanian Mythology


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:40 am 
Offline
YMtC Champ '11
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
YMtC Idol Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 10665
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/my/mine/himself
Dominaria, Ravnica, Alara, Paliano, Ixalan and Kylem are also exceptions then I take it?

_________________
[Warchief] Custom EDH Project
you're like the kind of person who would cast Necropotence irl


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:58 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 01, 2014
Posts: 251
Identity: Able of Reproduce
Preferred Pronoun Set: Call me whatever; I find it enlightening
Zendikar would be an exception, too, in that case.

One of the key things though is that "being Giant" vs "being giant" is an inter vs intra comparison. Considering Radha and the Kor, having Giant as a creature type is more about people being more familiar with Humans as a whole than other creature types and thus more willing to subcategorize the Human-like species. It's kinda like Dog vs Wolf as opposed to Insect.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:01 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: May 08, 2020
Posts: 211
Preferred Pronoun Set: He/Him
Mown wrote:
Dominaria, Ravnica, Alara, Paliano, Ixalan and Kylem are also exceptions then I take it?


Do you mean Fiora?

Ixalan doesn't have giants. Alara and Kylem only had one giant each* and Fiora had only two* and I don't remember much if any flavor on giants on these world (the wiki doesn't even have a section for these worlds on the giants page). Not sure we can ride them off as not elemental since we have giants like Kalemne and her captain who don't out right look elemental like and look just like big people.

*There are more giants but as a reprint side set these giants are not flavor-wise set on this world.

I'd agree with Heliosphoros, giants are a race of sometimes elemental based, sometimes not, humanoids that are larger than most of the other beings on a world. Jareth seems to be the only that breaks this and imo not sure should be one.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:01 am 
Offline
YMtC Champ '11
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
YMtC Idol Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 10665
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/my/mine/himself
Fiora yeah, and I assume that Dargo is from Ixalan, but I guess it's not explicitly stated anywhere. I'm not actually sure where I got Alara from, I think I was confusing it with the Zendikar symbol. I'm not going to deny that giants often have elemental associations, probably inspired by their D&D incarnation to a large extent, but a very sizeable portion of them aren't, and I'm not going to assume that all of Ravnica's giants all secretly imbued with elemental powers.

_________________
[Warchief] Custom EDH Project
you're like the kind of person who would cast Necropotence irl


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:09 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 8248
Identity: Spambot
Preferred Pronoun Set: 0, 1
I mean, doesn't this apply to dwarves too? The only thing all dwarves have in common is being "a species that's like humans, but shorter", so why can't giants exist as "a species that's like humans, but bigger"?

_________________
Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:36 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 3845
Dwarves do tend to have consistently squatty features, outside of Shadowmoor's goblin-like duergar.

_________________
Matahouroa
Planeswalker's Guide
The Story

My Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/Carliro
Image

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DKFQ7Q38/ a book based on Lusitanian Mythology


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:27 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Dwarves also usually have a distinctive culture, talent or behavior that distinguishes them. While one could argue the behavior, giants aren't nominally known for developing culture or a specialty as a people.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:28 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: May 09, 2014
Posts: 4575
they probably use the word giant when something feels like a giant

which is probably the case for most but not all large humanoids

_________________
"That winter, the fireplace was never without a crackling blaze in its belly. The boiled wine we drank was undoubtedly middling and cheap, but she said, with a smile, "I've never had wine this good before." And though I didn't say anything, I felt the same way."


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group