I still have a slight scum-read on KoD for all the reasons I've mentioned. After thinking about it I do think exonerating zinger is something scum-KoD would be fairly less likely to do and that makes me lose a lot of interest in the case. I'm pretty scared of scum-KoD though, since they're typically much less likely to be lynched than town-KoD is.

I don't like what tevish has posted about me but I'm more inclined to read it as a lack of engagement in the game rather than something said in bad-faith. If KoD ever flipped scum I'd probably look at tevish because i think they were one of the earlier people to start my counterwagon and it was done in a way that i find unccharacteristic of them.

Unfortunately nobody really sticks out to me much this game. In theory that could indicate scum among lurkers, but I think its more likely a result of the game not being active enough. There aren't many actual cases being fielded and the lack of votes makes it harder to read people's commitments over time. Its pretty easy for scum in this climate to just throw in their 2 cents on the current discussion and otherwise keep their heads down, and with so many players effectively doing that its not something thats telling.

Idk, why rag said that. When she really wanted to say you shot amber cause you talk about doing it often enough that it had to happen sometime.

Tevish jumped on the bandwagon briefly, but that's all the serious attention you got. I just went back and checked. It did generate lots of conversation (a point, perhaps, in Rag's favor), but that conversation was broadly second-order in the sense that, beyond your exchanges with Rag, it was mostly people discussing your discussion, not the points underlying.

Also, you're only toned down in accountable ways (i.e. day to day behaviour). Scum kills are kind of by definition unaccountable (in that you're already dead before we can pin stuff on you, so it no longer really matters for assessing your play).

I've only really given a single thought to you killing lurkers as scum as well, for what thats worth, its just that i've posted that same thought a lot more times. (in essence, the only thing i've said about you killing lurkers is "KoD is very likely to want to kill a lurker N1 as scum", posted over and over again as i re-iterate my case. There's not much more to say about it really. Same goes for you being afraid of the risk of killing amber. I did talk at length about how the way you brought up your self-analysis made me less inclined to believe it, which was probably more than I'd done for substantiating my take on your lurker-killings.

I just don't see how KoD is *more* likely to kill a lurker. I kill lurkers, lots of scum players do, its a good way to play if you think you can win an argument.

@CL:



Duly note that Skystone was the first in the game to mention anything about the meme (through fielding a, maybe, meme way of opening any mafia game among us that would result in both Amber and I dying).


@Rag:

I've been under the impression, and I am still convinced of said impression, that your so called "knowledge of my meta" and "consideration" thereof is something you just haven't rigorously pursued (wrt to how I'd approach the aggro from Amber's death). You've certainly talked more about what I'd do as scum (as far as killing a lurker goes), and I am in doubt that it is strictly just a thought that you kept repeating. Because if that was the case, then I'd say your "knowledge" of how I'd act as scum is certainly lacking anything of substance. I'd even go so far as to say the only thing you do know is based off my own self analysis (and as CL has commented on, it just affirms my thoughts on the validity of a lurker kill as a general strategy).



@Skystone:

I'm pretty sure you're the same person that said scum me isn't as loud as town me. So, again, I find myself disagreeing with you.

I've said it before but its based on having seen how you've suggested kills on N1 in the past.

Doubting my knowledge of your meta is fine, but i don't think its a reason to scumread me. Pretty much every mafia player forms ideas about how the people they regularly play with play, and often those ideas are wrong. (although in this case i'm pretty confident you do regularly suggest killing lurkers on N1)

I'm not convinced lots of scum players do. I'm under the impression that a fair majority of players here would choose to kill an active player N1 instead.

I certainly think it is part of why I should scum read you. Couple to it that I don’t believe you've given as much consideration to how unlikely I may have been to kill Amber, and I come to the conclusion that you are scum pushing your narrative about me for the sake of scoring a lynch on me.

And it may have worked if others wanted me dead as well. Personally, I don't think you and Skystone gave much thought about how others would react to Amber's death given Skystone opened the game bringing forth the meme.

Also, you've had at least several players express a willingness to kill Amber so I do believe there isn't a majority that wouldn't kill a lurker like you seem to believe.

I think its wifom whether you would or wouldn't and after this discussion its really going to be wifom next game.

afaicr its just argh but most people didn't answer

there'll be some wifom if this kind of thing happens again next game but i don't think there's really much wifom now

some people have suggested someone might have killed amber to implicate KoD but that feels a little far-fetched to me personally. I believe that whoever killed amber, be it KoD or otherwise, did so because they thought it was a good kill first and foremost for reasons unrelated to the meme, although its possible those reasons were considered/acknowledged.

Do you guys think we have 3 mafia in this game?
we have 11 players, so its like kinda funny looking.

what if there is 2 mafia and a SK

I'll try to reread the thread after work, if possible.

Probably only 2 mafia given game flavor.

probably. but 5 man lylo is gonna be painful for 2 scum. They are really going to need to a lurker to lynch then.

committing to my vote on naga now, because i think deadline is soonish and i don't want to forget

i think the game is meant to be open setup

I asked numbers if the number of scum were confirmed and he said yes

iirc from the original thread scum was meant to be 25% of the playerbase which means we could reasonably be dealing with 2 or 3 depending on rounding

@Numbers: How many scum are in the game? Are self roles possible in this game?

i believe deadline is in ~4 hours so idk if you'll have time for that.

the wagons right now realistically are me (seemingly on the basis that people think i killed amber with the intent of pinning it on KoD and my attack on KoD today had been planned since last night) and naga (because he's inactive and unlikely to be modkilled)

votes are submitted privately to numbers via DM so if you intend to vote do it that way

if you want a less biased description of the cases on me someone else can feel free to summarize them