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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:47 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:02 pm 
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Wow, they went ahead and pulled that trigger. It's not like the Godzilla crossover cards with the alternate names, this is very much its own card. And it's being sold direct by WOTC through the Secret Lair program. Be interesting to see how this shakes out.

A glimpse into the likely fallout can be seen here: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=26515

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:42 pm 
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Maro on the subject:

Quote:
mdbryan84 asked:
I just want to express my opinion that this secret lair is a very very dangerous slope to go down. Have you guys not learned from Nalthni Dragon/Nexus of fate? Also these are essentially being printed directly to the reserved list since WOTC won’t own the licensing forever, which is something stated wouldn’t happen.

markrosewater said:
While the Secret Lair is the one chance to get the Walking Dead versions of these cards, we have the ability to print the Magic versions of these cards in future products. So, let’s say Negan becomes a popular Commander, we can print the Magic version (same card mechanically, but with a Magic name and art) in any number of future products. This is not a case of us being unable to make more of a popularly played card.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:07 pm 
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Each player "secretly" picks a creature? How is that any different from just picking a creature? This is the first example I've seen outside of Un- cards where the rules text has flavorful elements.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 pm 
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If you were just picking, it would be in order (I'm bad at the rules, so I don't know which order). So one player would know what the other picked before making their choice. Secret choosing means you both do it at the same time.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:50 pm 
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niatpac wrote:
Each player "secretly" picks a creature? How is that any different from just picking a creature? This is the first example I've seen outside of Un- cards where the rules text has flavorful elements.

Without the word "secretly", the choices would be made publicly, in turn order.
Comp Rules wrote:
101.4. If multiple players would make choices and/or take actions at the same time, the active player (the player whose turn it is) makes any choices required, then the next player in turn order (usually the player seated to the active player’s left) makes any choices required, followed by the remaining nonactive players in turn order. Then the actions happen simultaneously. This rule is often referred to as the “Active Player, Nonactive Player (APNAP) order” rule.
Example: A card reads “Each player sacrifices a creature.” First, the active player chooses a creature they control. Then each of the nonactive players, in turn order, chooses a creature they control. Then all creatures chosen this way are sacrificed simultaneously.

101.4a If an effect has each player choose a card in a hidden zone, such as their hand or library, those cards may remain face down as they’re chosen. However, each player must clearly indicate which face-down card they are choosing.

101.4b A player knows the choices made by the previous players when making their choice, except as specified in 101.4a.

Also, this is actually the fourth time "secretly" has appeared on a black-bordered Magic card. https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3Asecre ... order=name

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:52 pm 
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I assume it's secret to work on a mind game gambit sort of thing. Maybe you make them think you'll pick their biggest threat so they pick it too so they only lose one creature, but you actually chose something else so they lose two. Maybe they try to call your bluff and pick something weaker but you actually did choose their biggest threat. Maybe even sometimes you lose the mind game and only get one thing. It's actually pretty neat mechanically


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:52 pm 
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I like the mindgames but hate the mechanically unique crossover. I was one of the people who was OK with Godzilla, specifically because they were just extra-special alt arts. This...

Urgh.

Also I am going to remind everyone that Nalathni Dragon was supposed to have taught Wizards to not do EXACTLY THIS ages ago, and I'm going to do it in every thread for these punks.

Even though MaRo apparently addressed that old issue, or thinks he did.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:15 pm 
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I like the mindgames but hate the mechanically unique crossover. I was one of the people who was OK with Godzilla, specifically because they were just extra-special alt arts. This...

Urgh.

Also I am going to remind everyone that Nalathni Dragon was supposed to have taught Wizards to not do EXACTLY THIS ages ago, and I'm going to do it in every thread for these punks.

Even though MaRo apparently addressed that old issue, or thinks he did.

It's mind-boggling that this is happening right after they stopped printing mechanically unique cards for Buy-a-Box promos because of this exact same complaint.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:51 am 
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I like the mindgames but hate the mechanically unique crossover. I was one of the people who was OK with Godzilla, specifically because they were just extra-special alt arts. This...

Urgh.

Also I am going to remind everyone that Nalathni Dragon was supposed to have taught Wizards to not do EXACTLY THIS ages ago, and I'm going to do it in every thread for these punks.

Even though MaRo apparently addressed that old issue, or thinks he did.

It's mind-boggling that this is happening right after they stopped printing mechanically unique cards for Buy-a-Box promos because of this exact same complaint.

I think that the're pushed to DEFINITELY DO EXACTLY THAT by Hasbro and to OH NO STOP DOING THIS THING by the customers
so, the solution? do it, then stop and apologize, then repackage, then do again
they are probably literally forced into this and have no other avialable moves

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:59 am 
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i imagine it mostly comes down to hasbro pushing them to do things that will make them money

i seem to recall maro saying something to the effect of (i think wrt modern masters?) "we need to release chase products that whales will pay a lot of money for, how can we do this without upsetting everyone?", and i think the implication of him having said that is pretty clear. I imagine the MTG team itself is more than aware that what they're doing is exploitative at best and destructive to their game at worst but hasbro doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to giving development teams a high degree of autonomy.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:34 am 
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I want to note that Hasbro has owned Wizards of the Coast since 1999, which is the year Sixth Edition came out. They are not new corporate owners.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:32 pm 
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It's probably a combination of money grab + Wizards running out of design ideas after printing 20,000 different cards. You can only do "Honorable Angel of Cadswallop" so many times before wanting to take a drill to your temple.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:49 am 
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It's also just the fact that Magic, and especially Commander, has become much more popular the last few years. Back in 2001 when I started playing, a stunt like this would not have been worth it (and it might not be this time either, we'll see). There are enough big spenders throwing money at Magic now that the short term profit vastly outweighs the long term health of the game.

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Last edited by Aaarrrgh on Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:11 am 
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There's also been natter that the suits may be breathing down WotC's neck a bit more of late. I'm not sure why they would be, but corporate culture is a mystery anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:01 am 
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There is some speculation that Hasbro considers Magic a bubble, so they're trying to squeeze as much money as they can from it and then sell it.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:24 am 
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Yeah Magic wasn’t mainstream enough to bother using as an advertising stunt. Wasn’t it only ten years ago that girl freaked out when she realised she was dating Jon Finkel?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:31 pm 
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I never noticed the when an opponent sacs effect


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:34 am 
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Flopfoot wrote:
Yeah Magic wasn’t mainstream enough to bother using as an advertising stunt. Wasn’t it only ten years ago that girl freaked out when she realised she was dating Jon Finkel?

I'm still weirded out that happened. It's behavior so far out of the human normal that I have to wonder how much of her motivation was writing a controversial article. THen again, we live in a world where my dad is trying to get me into coin collecting because he thinks it's less nerdy...

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