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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:45 pm 
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Basically, considering how dangerous and unpleasant the Blind Eternities are, it is usually not worth the effort. Think of it as a ten story building which has an elevator, but the elevator for some reason stays at a temperature of twelve degrees below freezing, and it's also full of barbed wire and smells of rotten eggs. I would take the stairs.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:44 pm 
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TPmanW wrote:
And for that matter, why can't walkers use their powers to jump in and out of planes in a location of their choice, essentially teleporting?

I suppose it's not an easy trick to perform but we have, in fact, two M:EM walkers who can do just that. One is Tevish' Illarion Vale, the other is my Elphimas. I don't remember if Tevish ever expended on how his character is able how to do that, but for mine I imagined they could basically glide on/through the (existential) surface between the plane and the Eternities, a trick they learned in millennia of 'walking and studying planar and spatial magic. They can only plane-shift to places they can perceive or that they have already visited, though.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:58 pm 
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I'd always depicted Illarion as being a poor mage, but a savant at actually being a Planeswalker. Perhaps due to his "tourist" nature and deep appreciation for travel, Planeswalking was, to an extent, his special magic, leading to impressive feats like ghetto teleportation and guest insulation that nobody had a chance to tell him he couldn't do until he'd done them.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:39 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
TPmanW wrote:
Have there ever been clear rules established about where a planeswalker can go in the plane they walk to? The fact we never see anybody embedded in a wall* suggests that there must be some limitation. If there was physically no place you could fit on a plane, could you even walk there? Would there be some sort of resistance, or a premonition that it wouldn't work? And for that matter, why can't walkers use their powers to jump in and out of planes in a location of their choice, essentially teleporting?


*Well, not for that reason.

You are naturally attracted to a point that is resonant with your magic when you first visit a world. Once you're familiar, you can narrow downto a broad area you've visited before.
Regarding walking into lethal conditions.... yeah, it happens. They don't tell those stories because they tend to be short.
As to teleportation, oldwalkers could do that, but now it takes too much stamina to push yourself out of a world that I think a certain degree of metaphysical momentum keeps you from turning back around and dropping in.

Of course, when your spark ignites, you have zero control over your travel. There might be an instinctual component, but it's a die roll.

That could be taken to imply that once you've landed on a plane, you're still not fully "settled" there- you're still burning off that Nth-dimensional momentum once you've landed. You may not be truly anchored on a plane for... well a couple of seconds sounds right, but if you 'walked just right/wrong then perhaps you could be only loosely that plane for a while. Sounds like a good bit to chew on, that. Also, does that "momentum" pull you in any particular "direction"? (To use those terms loosely). Is it easier to rapidly "skim" across planes than jump, settle and jump again? Doing so might be energy efficient (if you have the stamina to keep up the pace) but wildly uncontrollable (unless you have a very good grasp on Nth dimensional navigation).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:12 pm 
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TPmanW wrote:
That could be taken to imply that once you've landed on a plane, you're still not fully "settled" there- you're still burning off that Nth-dimensional momentum once you've landed. You may not be truly anchored on a plane for... well a couple of seconds sounds right, but if you 'walked just right/wrong then perhaps you could be only loosely that plane for a while. Sounds like a good bit to chew on, that. Also, does that "momentum" pull you in any particular "direction"? (To use those terms loosely). Is it easier to rapidly "skim" across planes than jump, settle and jump again? Doing so might be energy efficient (if you have the stamina to keep up the pace) but wildly uncontrollable (unless you have a very good grasp on Nth dimensional navigation).

Actually, it's not exactly landing on a plane as much as "crashing" which sometimes is a literal phenomenon we've seen in the past.
There's a kind of metaphysical gravity that applies, though it's more a barrier coming in and out of the world.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:10 pm 
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TPmanW wrote:
And for that matter, why can't walkers use their powers to jump in and out of planes in a location of their choice, essentially teleporting?


The Wanderer seems able to, though as her spark is messed up that certainly helps.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:10 pm 
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Had an idea of a telekinetic blue mage that is primarily physical, using a group of orbs as weapons

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:55 am 
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That would be awesome.
My first vision of the character would be a Jeskai monk. Just chilling there until somebody gets too close then beating them down with an offhand gesture and a flying orb.
As part of my never ending quest to shrink blue's color pie, I have to ask if the mage couldn't be red? Magnetism could sub in for psionics here. And I'm always irked with how many things can be justified as blue because they fall under "psychic stuff" and ESP=mental=blue.

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CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:20 am 
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TPmanW wrote:
That would be awesome.
My first vision of the character would be a Jeskai monk. Just chilling there until somebody gets too close then beating them down with an offhand gesture and a flying orb.
As part of my never ending quest to shrink blue's color pie, I have to ask if the mage couldn't be red? Magnetism could sub in for psionics here. And I'm always irked with how many things can be justified as blue because they fall under "psychic stuff" and ESP=mental=blue.

It's been done before so it's theoretically possible.
But part of the appeal,at least to me, is the dichotomy of a guy that looks like a blue mage that doesn't function like a blue mage.

...Incidentally, I now have Magneto's theme from X-men: First Class stuck in my head.
Damn that's some good leitmotif...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:00 pm 
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That sounds a bit like the Sun Soul Monks in D&D 5e. The whole thing with that subclass is that they have learned to focus their ki into globes of light...

...which they use to punch people from 30ft away. Th wet can turn a part of their own soul into a physical object, and the only use they could come up with for that power was "punching people from across the room".

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:46 am 
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This idea hearkens back to the title.

A world that doesn't have clouds, but instead, the firmament of the heavens is an actual ocean.
The water effectively acts just as clouds normally would, but much more... solidly.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:10 am 
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I really wish Magic had a demon/demons that weren't all monstrosity and torment and bluster.
Instead, a demon that's insidious and gentle, that offers sweet words and succor for the poor unfortunates.

The kind of demon that convinces you to give in to all those things you know you shouldn't and otherwise just is along for the ride while you selfdestruct.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:16 am 
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To an extent, I feel more like Magic tries to have it both ways with demons. There are ones like Kothophed that we see try to be the insidious, whispering snakes... but in card form they're all still huge fat creatures that can stomp real good when roused to action. There was a time when imps seemed to fill that role (Nettling Imp and its relatives like Norrit kind of have that effect mechanically), but I think Imps have been pigeonholed to a sort of "Black devil" role where they're expected to just sort of squeal and die, rather than being "like demons, but not physically capable" and thus skewing manipulative.

With how fixed demons are, I'd kind of expect another type to step in and cover the poorly represented role of clever "seductive" manipulator, sort of the way Archons largely step in to take angel roles that are harsher and more judgmental. But so far I don't think any type really covers it. Vampires probably have more of those sorts of effects but they don't exactly work for what you're looking for, it wants to be something less human.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:54 am 
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In D&D, that role is filled by devils, but MTG devils are even more locked into a different role than the demons.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:11 pm 
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I'd think it's a problem of tying the mechanics of Magic so closely to its identity as (a) fantasy setting(s), as Tevish kind of brushed up against in his reply. They want Demons to be really impactful when a player puts them out onto the board, since they're the iconic of :b:, and it's hard to be iconic if they die to a quick shock.

That said, I'm of the opinion that :b: gets the short end of the stick in a lot of ways. Like, it's characteristic creature type is Zombie (last I checked), which is a non-race. I think it's been using Vampires here and there, but they're also kind of a non-race in most cases (and certainly across mainstream fantasy).

I've probably just grown cynical as it's been longer and longer since I've delved into the actual product of Magic, but I vaguely recall living through the changes that saw them what I considered "dumbing down" the game and presentation.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:53 pm 
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I'd think it's a problem of tying the mechanics of Magic so closely to its identity as (a) fantasy setting(s), as Tevish kind of brushed up against in his reply. They want Demons to be really impactful when a player puts them out onto the board, since they're the iconic of :b:, and it's hard to be iconic if they die to a quick shock.

That said, I'm of the opinion that :b: gets the short end of the stick in a lot of ways. Like, it's characteristic creature type is Zombie (last I checked), which is a non-race. I think it's been using Vampires here and there, but they're also kind of a non-race in most cases (and certainly across mainstream fantasy).

It's exacerbated by the fact that those things erase the human type, but not things like goblin.
I'd actually really dig a setting where vampires weren't an infection, but a discrete race of their own. They could still superficially resemble humans because elves are a thing, ya?

Quote:
I've probably just grown cynical as it's been longer and longer since I've delved into the actual product of Magic, but I vaguely recall living through the changes that saw them what I considered "dumbing down" the game and presentation.
Core 2010 did more damage than they'd probably admit.
Some of the changes weren't really that problematic, but the focus on field state (creatures) has had a deleterious effect on power creep.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:30 pm 
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I'd think it's a problem of tying the mechanics of Magic so closely to its identity as (a) fantasy setting(s), as Tevish kind of brushed up against in his reply. They want Demons to be really impactful when a player puts them out onto the board, since they're the iconic of :b:, and it's hard to be iconic if they die to a quick shock.

That said, I'm of the opinion that :b: gets the short end of the stick in a lot of ways. Like, it's characteristic creature type is Zombie (last I checked), which is a non-race. I think it's been using Vampires here and there, but they're also kind of a non-race in most cases (and certainly across mainstream fantasy).

I've probably just grown cynical as it's been longer and longer since I've delved into the actual product of Magic, but I vaguely recall living through the changes that saw them what I considered "dumbing down" the game and presentation.


Currently its;

Characteristic races (tend to be smaller sized, shows up a lot and plays into the fantasy race idea for each world)

W- Humans for lack of a better choice but we seen catfolk and Kor too and they tried dwarves and kith kin but I think they didn't catch with players

U- Merfolk, though vedalken show up

B-Zombies and vampires are both characteristic since OG zendikar. They also been trying out the Azra and Aetherborn recently they talked about for Kylem and Kaladesh some worlds they don't want necromancy/undeath elements and orcs are seem to be making a come back.

R- Goblins, with one offs used on the planes with no goblins (allowed).

G- Elves who are similar with goblins with mostly other one-off depending on plane but recently naga have been seemly experimented with in planes that don't fit elves.

Iconic (bigger creature that end up timmy cards with splash effects often 4+ power/toughness and often appearing at rare/mythic)

W- Angels, sometimes archons

U- Sphinxes and/or any of the sea monsters

B- Demons, vampires played around here when they couldn't use demons

R- Dragons

G- Hydras, though you often see the random beast or similar big green beater here and dinosaurs are becoming more popular


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:57 pm 
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Dwarves do actually seem to be making traction. In so far as they seem to be enjoying the same level of exposure that Orcs are getting.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:05 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Dwarves do actually seem to be making traction. In so far as they seem to be enjoying the same level of exposure that Orcs are getting.


I'm sorry I was meaning to say Kithkin and Dwarves where tested out to replace humans as the main race for white, but didn't seem to catch on how they want the main races too but still are used for certain worlds. Eldraine showed this with having the room for white dwarf creatures but instead had them in red along with goblins, though maybe the viking set and DnD set could change this.

I do like the idea of vampires being their own thing instead of a spin off of humans. Kaladesh and I think Tarkir played around in this and would like to see more of it.


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