You are right. I was thinking about the old rules that would 0 damage done to creatures with Pro red. It actually has not come up besides someone with Embercleve holding back attacking.

I think I've found a deck! Jeskai Fires with Fae of Wishes produces a crap ton of extra options that makes it a lot more pleasant to play, at least in BO1. Like, say my opponent taps out for Dream Trawler. If my board is Fires only, I can wish for Kaya's Wrath. If I have Cavalier of Gales + Fires, I can still wish for Angrath's Rampage. If I have Cavalier of Gales + Fires but opponent also has a pegasus token, I can still wish for Liliana, Dreadhorde General, draw a card, and leave behind a threat. Gotta love the versatility!

Losing the sideboard space in BO3 is undoubtedly going to be critical however. But then again, I scarcely play BO3, and I'm confident I'll be happy with one of the other decks there if I do start.

Yeah, wishboard in Bo1 is kinda like cheating

I think I'm good to go with Temur Clover, Crokeyz Ramp and that Sultai goodstuff. Only some games take forever.

You also played Bant Ramp back in the day when it featured Mass Manipulation, so maybe that's another avenue for you.

Mass Manipulation does not look like it's in a good spot right now - many of the premier threats of the format are immune, e.g. Elspeth Conquers Death, Dream Trawler, Lucky Clover. Against others like Uro and Cavalier of Thorns, it's not the most effective. I'm pretty certain the standard Bant ramp lists right now are more effective than attempting to cast Mass Manipulation.

Didn't mean to include MM.

The deck is still the same: Nissa + Krasis for fun and Teferi to protect yourself.

It is bo1 but I'm running a Gruul I just posted in constructed and it is doing very well in the meta. Climbed though silver last night and 4-0 so far in gold tonight. 16-2 so far on my caring about rank season.

Man Elspeth Conquers Death is such a card. Like, I have Fires of Invention out. I wish for something, get Liliana / Ugin, and play them on empty board. Sounds good right? After I use their +1, next turn, opponent plays Elspeth Conquers Death. Now not only do I not have my planeswalker, their planeswalker is coming back in two turns. And all I got out of it is a 2/2. My so-called card advantage is virtually strictly inferior to theirs. Plus it's versatile enough to be useful in every matchup, being a maindeckable answer to the likes of Wilderness Reclamation & Fires of Invention (although not Lucky Clover, I guess).

Might stop playing Jeskai Fires for this reason ...

Edit: hands up if you've attacked a planeswalker and/or cast a discard spell with ECD on the battlefield, and then the "answered" card comes back better and stronger than before ...

*sheepishly raises hand* and then mumbles something that sounds like ducking taller

https://article.hareruyamtg.com/article ... lang=en#3b metagame analysis by Jeremy Dezani with win rates for all the major decks against all the other major decks.

Can confirm Jeskai Fires feels miserable against Bant ramp. You cannot put up a fast-enough clock, and their endless card draw + life gain means you cannot win the late-game either.

Next on the agenda is some kind of Jeskai Fires deck with Narset, which seems to destroy Bant ramp on her own.

Man this meta is so un-fun. So much of the meta is midrange decks looking to see who can get the greediest and still get away with it. That's why we got decks like Temur Adventures (reasonably greedy), Bant ramp (even more greedy) and 4c goodstuff (even more greedy). It's an arms race all the way to the moon. When these decks play practically every card is a 2-for-1 or better.

Monored is practically the only deck that isn't part of this arms race, but I bet that if monored players could give up 5 sideboard slots for the right to go first every game, they'd do so without thinking.

And then there are decks like Temur Reclamation, which is supposed to be the combo deck of the format and therefore good against these decks looking to play 5+ mana value-gaining cards. Problem is, although the greedy decks win slowly, they also gain life. Trying to kill someone from 30 life with Expansion // Explosion takes a ton of mana. Furthermore all their cards are 2-for-1s so I kinda have to counter, except I can't really hope to rely on the likes of Mystical Dispute against decks that are going to reach 15+ mana, and if one of their spells resolves they'd soon grind me out. Oh and ECD is an all-purpose answer to Wilderness Reclamation, Fires of Invention, and Thassa.

I feel like the meta needs a deck like Nexus to punish the greed. It doesn't have to be Nexus itself, but some kind of combo deck that goes over the top of everyone while being weak to aggro. It could also use threats that are more resilient to sweepers, e.g. Adanto Vanguard, so there are more aggro decks than monored.

Dude, get well soon

Lol

Like I said, it doesn't have to be Nexus itself, it just has to have certain properties. It could be Kethis combo, the modern Ad Nauseaum deck, etc.

Anyone run into the esper control variant that runs Bolas' Citadel/doom foretold/buncha other enchantments then reanimates it with dance of the manse? Pretty scary deck...utilizes the azorious control shell with a more lethal finisher.

Last cool deck I faced was a Grixis Fires pile that killed me on the spot after fetching for planewide celebration with Fae, then on their turn played Bolas, Proliferate 4 and ultimate on the spot!
I gave him the nice

That's Esper Dance. I've played against it a fair bit and it feels like a bad matchup for Jeskai Fires, don't know about other decks though.

Anyone have any smart ideas on what cards beat 1) Esper Dance and 2) Bant ramp?

1) Mountain
2) Mountain

Yeah pretty much mountains.
Esper dance is not a deck you should be aiming to beat tho.
Its irrelevant in the meta as an archetype.

My deck runs Mountains, still unfavorable

I realize Esper Dance is not supposed to be a strong deck in the meta, but I continue to play against it occasionally. Since I have some free space, might as well run something against it.

Does Unmoored Ego naming Dance of the Manse single-handedly beat Esper Dance? They have no win conditions except Dance right?

Bolas' citadel, if they can get that many perms in play.

My Esper Dance opponent discarded ECD (after drawing cards with Thirst of Meaning) in spite of me having Fires in play. The Dance next turn was very telegraphed, and my Fae of Wishes getting Unmoored Ego removed the Dance of the Manse in his hand. Opponent still had Dream Trawler in his deck but that card's not getting past Cavalier of Gales, and opponent folded a few turns later. Very satisfying win.