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 Post subject: Bant Ramp w/o Mass Manip
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:39 am 
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So PVDDR won Fandom Legends with a Manip-less Bant Ramp featuring some of Banedon's old favourites, namely Trostani and The Immortal Sun; and Huey played the deck on stream recently. Didn't look too bad.

4 x Llanowar Elves

1 x Druid of the Cowl
4 x Incubation Druid
4 x Paradise Druid

2 x Jadelight Ranger
2 x Prison Realm
1 x Teferi, Time Raveler

2 x Shalai, Voice of Plenty

2 x Trostani, Discordant
4 x Nissa, Who Shakes the World

2 x The Immortal Sun
2 x Finale of Glory
4 x Hydroid Krasis

1 x Plains
7 x Forest
4 x Breeding Pool
2 x Glacial Fortress
4 x Hallowed Fountain
4 x Sunpetal Grove
4 x Temple Garden

Sideboard:
3 x Baffling End
4 x Negate
2 x Deputy of Detention
1 x Teferi, Time Raveler
2 x Ixalan's Binding
2 x Lyra, Dawnbringer
1 x The Immortal Sun

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:44 am 
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I did see this list and in fact here's a guide to it: https://article.hareruyamtg.com/article/27544/?lang=en However I tried playing the list and wasn't impressed. It seems like a collection of not-very-good cards:

- Finale of Glory can be good against certain white aggro draws, but otherwise it's just bad. Just consider the cards and decks that can ignore almost any number of 2/2s: Benalish Marshal, Nissa, Cry of the Carnarium. Hell, even 3-mana Teferi gets rid of one.
- Trostani is also ineffective. She's great in tokens decks which can make tons of tokens, but this deck just doesn't do that. Without tokens then she's still fine, especially as a sideboard option against the Manipulation decks, but otherwise she's again mediocre. Who cares if you have two 2/2 lifelinkers if (again) Benalish Marshal, Nissa, etc all exist. It's true Nissa lands can't attack into you now, but they don't have to; you are the one who needs to attack her off the board.
- Given that these two cards are poor, what exactly is your ramp payoff? If you spend the first few turns of a game ramping, you could be under pressure against aggro, or also under pressure against control (because they will play planeswalkers). Krasis is okay-ish against aggro, but this isn't the card that breaks the back of aggro - the single best card against aggro is Entrancing Melody. The Immortal Sun does win the game against control, but there're only two copies and if you don't draw it you are heavily disfavored against Kaya's Wrath.

To be honest I think the version with Manipulation is better. You give up Lyra and a slightly more stable mana base in return for Entrancing Melody and Mass Manipulation, which I think is a very worthy trade.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:11 pm 
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I woulnd't cut the biggest payoff when I invest so much into ramping. Stealing their entire board is pretty close to "I win".


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