Thoughts about Fight with Fire in that list? Can act as an acceptable early-game removal spell and can act as a 20 to the dome with 11 mana mainphase (copy w Expansion // Explosion) or 13 in your end step (Electrodominance for X=3, cast FwF, pay kicker, copy with E/E).
Also, The Mirari Conjecture seems like an interesting 1-of in this list, especially if running the FwF combo.
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My decks can be found in my deckbuilder archive. Enter here!
Apparently you cant pay kicker with Electrodominance... I had the same combo in mind but I was told that it wont work... I guess we need to test it to be sure.
I'm tempted to play this deck too! With almost no experience in the new format, first impressions:
1) What's with all the Shivan Fires and Shocks? Do you really need that much cheap removal? 2) No sweepers (Fiery Cannonade)? 3) Surprising the mana base isn't all dual lands. 4) No card advantage spells (Chemister's Insight)?
It's a Niv deck, so it wants lots of 1 mana spells to take advantage of him. Normally they run some number of Dive Down too, I'd be tempted to drop Star an Expansion and a cannonade for 3 of those. Maybe go for some cheaper draw as well - Chart a course maybe. Hard to say without playing it lots and comparing it to Niv Drakes.
Ok apparently this is not the right way... apparently you just don´t care about creatures... you just want to draw cards and cast your Exp Exp... this is my current list and its far better Big changes
So spiral is just amazing... its just silly not to play it... it ramps you and it draws you a card, Shimmer is amazing good, cheap and lets you dig. Nexus... I hate this card but its so good.... Unconfortable Chill so we use Nexus but this is as near as playing with Fog that I will ever get. Precognitive perception, very solid cast it main phase with Wilderness and dig... 5 CMC is a lot but I think the card is good... I´m not sold for play set but maybe 2 copies and 2 Chemister is the right split.
I'm tempted to play this deck too! With almost no experience in the new format, first impressions:
1) What's with all the Shivan Fires and Shocks? Do you really need that much cheap removal? 2) No sweepers (Fiery Cannonade)? 3) Surprising the mana base isn't all dual lands. 4) No card advantage spells (Chemister's Insight)?
those are all in on the first list
check the spoiler for full decklist
EDIT: 1. Overall I think it was a mistake to run cheap removals, the deck really just wants to take off and for that you need to draw your cards and find your Wilderness reclamation. The deck can win on the spot if you chain a couple Nexus of fate... and this thing can produce absurd amounts of mana. 2. Same as before... the one reactive card is Uncomfortable chill and that is only good because it lets you keep digging. 3. Exp/exp is the best but I´m also running a combination of Chemisters and Precognitive perception, I think both are very important Chemister lets you discard excess lands and it comes online with Wilderness... Precognitive, its a power house T5 with Wilderness back up.
The deck is super fun to play... but it requires some skill for manually tapping mana... and ALWAYS .... ALWAYS put a stop on your end step.
Thoughts about Fight with Fire in that list? Can act as an acceptable early-game removal spell and can act as a 20 to the dome with 11 mana mainphase (copy w Expansion // Explosion) or 13 in your end step (Electrodominance for X=3, cast FwF, pay kicker, copy with E/E).
Also, The Mirari Conjecture seems like an interesting 1-of in this list, especially if running the FwF combo.
Ok so... I had the felling you were right and it turns out you were! Well sort of ... you cant copy spells +4CMC
Quote:
Electrodominance also only covers the ‘base’ cost of the spell. If there’s any additional costs like Kicker, you are permitted to pay them if you’d like to, but you do have to actually pony up the payment yourself. You aren’t gonna be casting Electrodominance for X=3 and casting a free, kicked Fight with Fire to do 13 damage on 5 mana. You could, however, do X=3 and freecast the Fire, then pay another 5R to kick it! Electrodominance also doesn’t play well with alternate costs, since you’re already using the alternate cost of ‘free’. So for Commander players out there, you’re not gonna Electro-Overload a Cyclonic Rift, whether you pay 2RR or 7RR, so keep that in mind.
SOURCE: Magic Judge Blogs I´m still away from being able to cast it... I dunno if you cast Electro for 10 you can cast a kicked FWF or you have to cast Electro for 3+ and then save 6cmc to pay for the Kicker cost of FWF.
Needs further testing. EDIT: Paying X=9 with Electrodominance to cast a kicked FWF does not work, you can however cast x=+3 with Electrodominance and leave 6cmc to pay the kicker cost as you cast the spell. CONFIRMED.
This is my current build, I chopped those sissy peseudo Fogs.... and went more all in... at this point is hard to justify almost anything. @Callmemagit shared this article on the Discord... it is a very interesting build for sure maybe there´s something in between for proper B03
Joined: Oct 02, 2013 Posts: 5378 Location: 1,824.5 meters underground.
Preferred Pronoun Set: Mr.
Man I need this semi layoff to finish (it's really only the weather holding me back now... cold as F and none of my jobs want to run today) so I can spend a few more bucks on the game. I would love to build this and finish my Mass Manipulation deck. Glad to hear the Amulet is working good for you. I'm not normally the greatest at evaluation as I never learn all the cards in a set by heart so I can refer to them on a whim but I remembered that card and thought it would fit your deck perfectly.
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It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Maurice Switzer
This is the deck... and I think its really close to the bones, I just took it to FNM and lost on the final ... against RDW by Crazy Razor 2-1, also took it to a Quick constructed event went 7-1, next I will test it on B03... the sideboard is basically change the Root snares for Negates if you are playing against control... that is the one concession the deck makes. --- This is the list
Finally the deck does want **** fog... its the card that lets you Dodge lethal.
So here is how the deck works
Mull Hands that does not have either, Search for Azcanta, Growth Spiral, or Root snare in the opening Should be mulled Ideally you have Wilderness or Primal Amulet on your opening hand. This is what will make you survive or take a little edge in the begging of the game, Search for Azcanta is awesome T2 try to land it before anything else, If you are below 4 lands always try to find what you need and dont be shy on ditching lands to the GY with all the card draw the deck has, you are going to be flooding more often than not.
This is the core of the deck and having redundancy is what makes it work. Wilderness doubles your mana... Primal Amulet doubles your spells... Together you can Kill your opponent on the spot or take a Bunch of turns.
This is the engine that will allow you to flip Primal amulet... and cycle your hand when you are flooding, both are instant speed so you can use every drop of mana from wilderness activation.
This are your win cons you can end up taking all the turns you want but to actually kill your opponent you are going to have to BURN them. With a resolved Niv you got another multiplier for your Explosion...
This is just nasty... and when you are doing this its just a courtesy to end the match... coz your may be taking 2-3 turns for every time you cast your Nexus.
Nastiness
Once you flip your Search or your Amulet then Wilderness just becomes absurd... For each Wilderness you are getting an extra copy of your spell or looking an extra 4 lands deep. ---
So in the end... this Fog and Nexus crap it isn´t my style of play.... and Nexus seems a bit of a win more card, I´m testing Counter Burn with Risk factor, Electrodominance, Fiery Cannonade and Quench... I still think that going no Creatures and no PWs is a bit upside specially in B01
This is the Build.... I think I like it a bit more.
IDEAS?
Win cons
Counter magic
I´m really impressed with Quench, it works great with Radical Idea and Ionize works great with Risk Factor
Ok after some heavy testing and reading some articles on the archetype this are my thoughts on the Temur Reclamation Pile:
This deck is a house... its very solid against the field, sure its can stumble against RDW and WW on G1 but probably G2 on the play can be devastating... G3 is slightly favored for the RDW but not so much for WW.
Sultai is not that problematic... Syncopate is huge here and after SB you can add a couple Essence scatter for consistency...
Monoblue can be favored on G1 but after SB you ara packing 8 cheap removals + 3 cannonades...
Esper is the most fun matchup... favored for us on G1 but do not remove your removal for G2 coz Thief of sanity will show up, here Dire Fleet Daredevil is amazing and can give a lot of advantage in the cheapest way.
Cards that did not make the cut
Ionize... its easier to cast but Surveil is just better... Surveil 1 in a control deck is just too good to pass
Growth spiral, sure a T3 Reclamation or T5 Niv is huge... but IMO this is a trap... same as Opt... if you are playing the combo approach then yes those cards are better but.. on a control shell you want answers or you are getting run over.
Quench, solid on the early game... even better than syncopate... but after that is a dead card... and we do want to get to the late game.. so axe!
3 Niv-Mizzet, Parun / 3 is the right number Niv is the frigging boss and he is probably what makes this deck so fun to play, T6 Niv with Reclamation on board is just so good.
1 Ral, Izzet Viceroy/ one copy gives the deck edge against resolved fatties, also Ral is the fastest PW with a relevant ultimate, I love this guy and he has persistently showed me that he deserves a spot on standard.
Burn package 2 Shivan Fire, solid on the early game, versatile on the late game. 2 Lava Coil, solid Vs Monoblue and Drakes... 3 Fiery Cannonade, panic button against fast aggro piles, cast it for 5 with Exp and its a proper sweeper...
1 Spell Pierce, just the one for counter wars and T2 erasure or Azcanta 4 Syncopate, perfect match for this deck... amazing on your opener quite solid on the late game when you are sitting on a **** load of mana... amazing vs Kraxis and Nexus. 4 Sinister Sabotage, the best counter on standard ATM
4 Wilderness Reclamation, best card in standard period // Remember to set end step pauses before spending your mana. 4 Chemister's Insight, I love this draw spell and works amazingly with Reclamation, burning excess lands with jump start is a sort of flooding insurance 4 Expansion // Explosion, BFF of the best card in standard, on a control shell you should be using this to clear the board early, and one shot killing them late, remember that Niv doubles + 1 the damage so 21 damage can be done with just 14 mana! / 7 lands One of the best things you can do with this deck is to Kill a threat on your end step, draw a **** load of cards and hold 3 mana for counter magic... MANUALLY TAP YOUR MANA FOR THIS!
2 Search for Azcanta, the next best thing to do with Reclamation... search for your answers!
2 Breeding Pool 4 Hinterland Harbor 2 Island 2 Mountain 4 Rootbound Crag 4 Steam Vents 4 Stomping Ground 4 Sulfur Falls -- 3 Negate, for controlish match ups 2 Shivan Fire, complete the play set against aggro and mono blue 3 Essence Scatter, against gates, Sultai and any deck that relies on big creatures to win the game 1 Search for Azcanta, against control 2 Dire Fleet Daredevil, against black based control... particularly Esper and RDW... add a relevant blocker and burn something. 2 Lava Coil, complete the play set vs aggro 2 Biogenic Ooze, surprise surprise... this has been a fun one against mid-range and some control match ups on the play.
Vs mono blue:
Spoiler
Remove -1 Ral -2 Azcanta -2 Sabotage -2 syncopate
Add +2 Shivan Fire +2 Lava Coil +3 Essence Scatter
Either forgot or didn't notice you had this thread This is copied from the one I started (and deleted).
Quote:
- I don't know if this deck should run Nexus of Fate. I see PV wrote an article about Temur Nexus here https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/temur-nexus/, but I haven't had the time to read it + try the archetype yet. The rest of these first impressions focus on the other version of Temur and the one played by Face to Face games, Temur Reclamation. - Boy is monored a bad matchup. - The deck is more a control deck than a combo deck. You run sweepers mainboard, as well as creature kill (Shivan Fire). - Because of the sweepers mainboard as well as creature kill, the matchup against aggro decks doesn't seem so bad. - Control also seems like a good matchup. You have spells they have to counter or lose (Reclamation), you have maindeck counterspells to fight counter wars (Expansion//Explosion doubles as a counterspell), and Niv-Mizzet is uncounterable. If you both sit there and make land drops eventually you'll hit 15+ lands and play Niv-Mizzet, counter their removal, and win the game. That said, they do have Thought Erasure, which can seriously hurt this plan. - Niv-Mizzet is a real house against some of the decks in the format. Resolve it and win, basically, especially if you get to untap. - Unlike Simic Nexus, this deck has game against monoblue with all the cheap removal + sweepers it runs. - Postboard the deck actually feels like a bastardized ramp deck. Growth Spiral is your only ramp spell, but still, the gameplan is the same as other ramp decks: you make your land drops, control the board with your removal, and then start casting Rekindling Phoenix, Biogenic Ooze, and Niv-Mizzet. - Unlike Simic, the creature plan isn't so "transformational". With the Simic deck, after sideboard, you can remain a lean and efficient combo deck, or you can transform into a creature deck. With Temur, you don't have the "lean and efficient combo deck" angle, and you always change your plans postboard as a result. - The matchup against Simic Nexus is quite weird. Resolve Niv-Mizzet and as long as you have more cards in your library than opponent has life points, their only out mainboard is Blink of an Eye. They only have so many Blinks too. If you can counter it they just die. That said, since Niv-Mizzet's trigger is mandatory, drawing your entire deck is a significant danger. I almost decked out against a Bant list playing Revitalize. - Cindervines isn't so deadly against this deck, but it's still a lot of pain. - It's surprising the standard lists aren't running 3x Search for Azcanta. - The deck is less miserable to play, but still painful. Having to cast Explosion for 22 is quite a lot of clicks. Is there a way to quickly tap lands like Breeding Pool if you don't care which color you get?
Ok after some heavy testing and reading some articles on the archetype this are my thoughts on the Temur Reclamation Pile:
This deck is a house... its very solid against the field, sure its can stumble against RDW and WW on G1 but probably G2 on the play can be devastating... G3 is slightly favored for the RDW but not so much for WW.
Sultai is not that problematic... Syncopate is huge here and after SB you can add a couple Essence scatter for consistency...
Monoblue can be favored on G1 but after SB you ara packing 8 cheap removals + 3 cannonades...
Esper is the most fun matchup... favored for us on G1 but do not remove your removal for G2 coz Thief of sanity will show up, here Dire Fleet Daredevil is amazing and can give a lot of advantage in the cheapest way.
Cards that did not make the cut
Ionize... its easier to cast but Surveil is just better... Surveil 1 in a control deck is just too good to pass
Growth spiral, sure a T3 Reclamation or T5 Niv is huge... but IMO this is a trap... same as Opt... if you are playing the combo approach then yes those cards are better but.. on a control shell you want answers or you are getting run over.
Quench, solid on the early game... even better than syncopate... but after that is a dead card... and we do want to get to the late game.. so axe!
3 Niv-Mizzet, Parun / 3 is the right number Niv is the frigging boss and he is probably what makes this deck so fun to play, T6 Niv with Reclamation on board is just so good.
1 Ral, Izzet Viceroy/ one copy gives the deck edge against resolved fatties, also Ral is the fastest PW with a relevant ultimate, I love this guy and he has persistently showed me that he deserves a spot on standard.
Burn package 2 Shivan Fire, solid on the early game, versatile on the late game. 2 Lava Coil, solid Vs Monoblue and Drakes... 3 Fiery Cannonade, panic button against fast aggro piles, cast it for 5 with Exp and its a proper sweeper...
1 Spell Pierce, just the one for counter wars and T2 erasure or Azcanta 4 Syncopate, perfect match for this deck... amazing on your opener quite solid on the late game when you are sitting on a **** load of mana... amazing vs Kraxis and Nexus. 4 Sinister Sabotage, the best counter on standard ATM
4 Wilderness Reclamation, best card in standard period // Remember to set end step pauses before spending your mana. 4 Chemister's Insight, I love this draw spell and works amazingly with Reclamation, burning excess lands with jump start is a sort of flooding insurance 4 Expansion // Explosion, BFF of the best card in standard, on a control shell you should be using this to clear the board early, and one shot killing them late, remember that Niv doubles + 1 the damage so 21 damage can be done with just 14 mana! / 7 lands One of the best things you can do with this deck is to Kill a threat on your end step, draw a **** load of cards and hold 3 mana for counter magic... MANUALLY TAP YOUR MANA FOR THIS!
2 Search for Azcanta, the next best thing to do with Reclamation... search for your answers!
2 Breeding Pool 4 Hinterland Harbor 2 Island 2 Mountain 4 Rootbound Crag 4 Steam Vents 4 Stomping Ground 4 Sulfur Falls -- 3 Negate, for controlish match ups 2 Shivan Fire, complete the play set against aggro and mono blue 3 Essence Scatter, against gates, Sultai and any deck that relies on big creatures to win the game 1 Search for Azcanta, against control 2 Dire Fleet Daredevil, against black based control... particularly Esper and RDW... add a relevant blocker and burn something. 2 Lava Coil, complete the play set vs aggro 2 Biogenic Ooze, surprise surprise... this has been a fun one against mid-range and some control match ups on the play.
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This is copied from the one I started (and deleted).