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 Post subject: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:01 am 
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[Probably to be expanded to a full primer eventually]

So I crafted this deck and played some BO3 series. Wow, it's powerful. It feels like if I ever draw Wilderness Reclamation with the mana to cast it I cannot lose. Doubling my mana lets me overpower almost every other deck. Nexus isn't even that important, it's just the big stick in the list of instants. Instead there're cards like Chemister's Insight, Precognitive Perception, and Search for Azcanta to draw a ton of cards. Eventually I just win. Here're some first impressions based on two matches played (one Orzhov aristocrats, one Grixis midrange):

- Search for Azcanta is pretty damn powerful indeed with Wilderness Reclamation. I'm running three, but there's a real argument for four.
- Having to hold full control BEFORE getting to the end step is very annoying.
- Not drawing Wilderness Reclamation isn't that big of an issue because there're so many ways to dig for it.
- Frilled Mystic overperformed. Being both a blocker and a counterspell is just great. I did board it out against Orzhov though since it's somewhat slow.
- Blink of an Eye felt weak, but necessary as interaction.
- Hydroid Krasis underperformed. I'm surprised since it's a big flying blocker that draws cards, gains life and all that, but I can't stack mana with Wilderness Reclamation to cast it, and the only "ramp" card is Growth Spiral so getting to lots of lands in play isn't trivial. It's still okay, but it's definitely not a 4-of.
- I wonder what the sideboard plan should be. I boarded in 4x Biogenic Ooze every time and it was okay, but I'm diluting the combo to fit those in.
- Atzocan Archer way overperformed as a sideboard card, killing all the X/1's and then blocking 1/1 flyers.

Against the Grixis deck I got hit by Thief of Sanity three times exiling all my Nexus of Fate (I boarded down to three copies) and still won easily. I was so far ahead on cards I had to be conservative casting Krasis lest I deck out. Apparently Nexus has weak matchups vs. Monoblue & Azorius Aggro, but I'd have to play those matchups to see how bad they are. Playing from the monoblue side I know sometimes the deck just loses to itself, and if it doesn't have a Curious Obsession or anything like that the Nexus deck is in no hurry and can simply avoid jamming Wilderness Reclamation into open mana. If Wilderness Reclamation sticks the CA spells should be more than enough to beat even a Curious Obsession. I dunno about Azorius Aggro. It doesn't look that threatening on paper, but Deputy of Detention exiling Wilderness Reclamation should be a big deal. I will have to see.

Like Selesnya tokens, the deck feels strong and I don't regret crafting it, at least for now.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:36 am 
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My sideboard atm (copied from Ali Aintrazi):

2 x Carnage Tyrant
1 x Nezahal, Primal Tide
3 x Sagittars Volley
4 x Negate
3 x Pelakka Wurm
1 x Mass Manipulation
1 x The Immortal Sun


Really liked Immortal Sun, Nezahal and Tyrant as the plan for control - might be worth switching a tyrant for another nezahal since it's just so strong. Not sure about the mass manip, brought it in vs some slow decks but never drawn it. Pelakka Wurm shuts down aggro hard, but you do need to get there. Volley vs Crushing Canopy is something I'm debating, nice that Volley hits flying tokens too but maybe canopy hitting enchantments is just better.

Biogenic ooze seems to have nice synergy with reclamation. I'm just not sure that it's better than the creatures I'm running since it has zero protection from removal and they're not taking out all their removal vs a krasis deck.

Hard matchups I've noticed are mono red (if they kill you on turn 4 or just burn you out through root snare), rgx with cindervines and pressure, mono blue (and I assume any aggro deck that can run counters). Thief backed up by counters and discard is a beating since it has so many good hits that draw cards for the opponent and let them counter/discard more. Also an esper control deck with Reclamation is busted as hell.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:09 pm 
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Are you running Ali Aintrazi's maindeck as well?

You've certainly played more games than me so take what I say with a pinch of salt. Still I'll say that if you haven't tried Atzocan Archer you absolutely should - the card is really good against any x/1 creature (i.e. monowhite, monoblue and even monored). Even if it doesn't kill something on entering the battlefield it's a 1/4 blocker with Reach. Biogenic Ooze is also great as a sideboard threat and it can single-handedly win the game. Getting removed isn't that bad, you still got a 3/3 out of it and possibly more if you have Wilderness Reclamations out and can sink more mana into it.

I haven't played against control but it doesn't seem that bad on paper: you have tons of CA spells & some maindeck counterspells, they have loads of dead removal, and you have Hydroid Krasis with its cast trigger. After board with 4x Negate it should get even better. Carnage Tyrant and Nezahal might not be necessary.

If you haven't seen it, check out the decklist from the top 8 of GP Memphis, which has one Simic Nexus deck: https://www.channelfireball.com/grand-p ... eck-lists/


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:06 pm 
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This deck makes me quit every time. I ain't got time to to wait around...

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:56 am 
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Blame Arena to be honest. I have to have full control turned on so often, or it just goes right through my Wilderness Reclamation triggers.

Couple more thoughts after doubling my sample size, this time crushing a Golgari deck with 2x Kitesail Freebooter and another Grixis control deck. I've yet to lose with the deck, it's just damn smooth and good.

- Unmoored Ego is a beating against this deck, but they need to name the right card (always name Wilderness Reclamation unless one is already on the table!!).
- I think, because of Unmoored Ego, it's a good idea to bring in more creatures against any deck with UB mana in the dark.
- It seems like the only way to beat this deck is with disruption AND a clock. Just disruption won't work; my Golgari opponent had 2x Kitesail Freebooter and a Vraska to kill my Search For Azcanta, but the clock was so painfully slow I had more than enough time to play Chemister's Insights and reload. Similarly the Grixis opponent played Thought Erasures and Unmoored Ego (naming Nexus of Fate), but had no pressure, and eventually I cast Hydroid Krasis for 10 and he folded.

Monoblue (or other aggro decks with Negate) must be this deck's natural predator, and if it only has one predator, it's in a good spot because it can dedicate most if not all of the sideboard to fighting it. That must be what Kenta Harane did at GP Memphis: I can see boarding in virtually the entire sideboard against monoblue, when one of monoblue's great weaknesses - to a T1 Llanowar Elves - can be exploited.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:20 am 
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Why not go temur with ex//ex?


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:55 am 
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Didn't try it, but I imagine it's because of the mana base, plus the fact that Temur is less proactive. The Simic version runs like a slick and well-oiled machine, if the opponent ever taps out or doesn't leave up blue mana (or plain doesn't have a counter) then it slams Wilderness Reclamation and just wins. It's very possible the deck combos off immediately the turn it puts Wilderness Reclamation into play; even if it doesn't, it can pass with Frilled Mystic available, which makes fighting it an uphill struggle. Expansion//Explosion simply isn't necessary. The only cards in Temur that I can imagine wanting are Niv Mizzet, because this card single-handedly walks over monoblue, and maybe Fiery Cannonade in the sideboard.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Banedon wrote:
Are you running Ali Aintrazi's maindeck as well?

You've certainly played more games than me so take what I say with a pinch of salt. Still I'll say that if you haven't tried Atzocan Archer you absolutely should - the card is really good against any x/1 creature (i.e. monowhite, monoblue and even monored). Even if it doesn't kill something on entering the battlefield it's a 1/4 blocker with Reach. Biogenic Ooze is also great as a sideboard threat and it can single-handedly win the game. Getting removed isn't that bad, you still got a 3/3 out of it and possibly more if you have Wilderness Reclamations out and can sink more mana into it.

I haven't played against control but it doesn't seem that bad on paper: you have tons of CA spells & some maindeck counterspells, they have loads of dead removal, and you have Hydroid Krasis with its cast trigger. After board with 4x Negate it should get even better. Carnage Tyrant and Nezahal might not be necessary.

If you haven't seen it, check out the decklist from the top 8 of GP Memphis, which has one Simic Nexus deck: https://www.channelfireball.com/grand-p ... eck-lists/


Running something similar to his maindeck yeah, can't remember offhand what I changed. Archer does seem ok, worth a try for sure. Not convinced that ooze is better than either tyrant or nezahal in the games where you'd bring it in, maybe against Eldest Reborn but Nezahal dodges that too.

I think control is much tougher than you suggest, especially post-board. They have access to a lot of disruption and card advantage, the game can turn into a war of attrition very quickly where who can flip azcanta becomes the main focus of the game. Generally, if they realise that's what the game is about, the control deck has more ways to deny azcanta. Of course there'll be games where they don't draw the right cards and reclamation just resolves and isn't instantly removed - but let's face it control decks are pretty good at not letting important things resolve :D Nezahal is so strong against them, uncounterable, draws cards, protects itself from everything and puts out 21 damage in 3 turns. And no-one is going to name it with ego.

Banedon wrote:
Blame Arena to be honest. I have to have full control turned on so often, or it just goes right through my Wilderness Reclamation triggers.



Don't need full control, just manually set a stop on your end step (you have to do this every turn, because I dunno, persistent stops are arcane technology or something).


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:36 pm 
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For real?!? Can I not make it always stop on my end step?

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:20 am 
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In keeping with my slow-and-steady progression, I've played a fifth game against Gates Nexus. Game 1 I stomped him. Game 2 I color screwed for a bit (rare) and he had Cindervines, which killed the first Wilderness Reclamation. His Gatekeeper Ramp hit me once before I played and stabilized behind a Biogenic Ooze. He'd apparently boarded out all his Gates Ablaze and did nothing while I made more and more Oozes. The board was beginning to look overwhelming for me when he played Banefire for 11 and killed me. Game 3, I tempoed him out with Frilled Mystic. Hard to imagine that happening often, however.

- Cindervines is a deadly sideboard card against this deck. The only thing I can do is brute force past it with Wilderness Reclamations, or bounce it EoT with Blink of an Eye. The incidental damage is scary when the opponent is drawing to an uncounterable Banefire as well.
- Clearly I should've boarded in Crushing Canopy (also hits Guild Summit).
- Can't tell if matchup is favorable or not. Preboard it's massively in the Nexus deck's favor, postboard it's a lot closer.
- 4 Negate seems like a staple in the sideboard. There're enough decks against which I want the full four copies.
- Once again, Frilled Mystic proves to be a great card as a universal counterspell that's immune to Negate.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:57 am 
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I struggled against Drakes with this deck. As soon as Niv is played is basically game over. We have no flier hate in main board. Then they sb all their counters in game 2. It’s a hard match up.

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:44 pm 
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Haven't played against Niv Mizzet, but presumably you can Blink of an Eye the dragon and then combo off. And yeah, winning counter wars is partly why I think 4x Negate is a staple in the sideboard. In fact it's why I'm also thinking about running 26 lands. It's hard to tinker with the maindeck though. As a combo deck, every combo card removed weakens the combo.

EDIT: won another match against Nexus Gates. I won smoothly pre-board but it felt unfavorable post-board; he had more counterspells than me plus Niv Mizzet. I lost to it in game 2, but then beat it in game 3 by bouncing it (and winning the counter war). I feel like the sideboard could go even deeper into counterspells as a result, add more Spell Pierces to go with the Negates.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:27 am 
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Okay, I'm probably off this deck. It's not that it's not powerful - it is, and it probably does the most powerful things in the whole of Standard. The problem is it's a frustrating deck to pilot. I almost just threw a game because I didn't hold full control, allowing my opponent to play Vivien to kill Wilderness Reclamation. I was only barely able to dig to my last copy of Wilderness Reclamation to close the game out. And then I finally lost a match to Naya tokens, which literally presented zero interaction (they had Knight of Autumn, but played it as a 4/3 beater). I still lost 2-1 because I simply couldn't find Wilderness Reclamation in my top 25+ cards in both losses, not to mention I only found one Root Snare both games. Finally there's the fact that this is a linear deck that has trouble with sideboard hate. It's possible to power through this sideboard hate - I can win counter wars, I can have a transformational sideboard - but there's something about decks that get worse after sideboard that irks me.

I might continue to play it for a bit but I'll probably find another deck to put most of my effort into. The problem though is, what? The top decks are Sultai (which I just don't want to play), Monoblue (which has the same issues as this deck, except replace Wilderness Reclamation with Curious Obsession), White and Red aggro (seems too one-dimensional to be fun), and Esper control (me play a control deck? Et tu divinevert?). Standard might be really diverse, but there doesn't seem to be a strong deck I actually want to play.

Final (?) thoughts on this deck:

- Because of the problems that happen if it fails to find Wilderness Reclamation, I suspect 26 lands is better than 25. More mana is great, since the deck's designed to operate with lots of mana. This also helps Growth Spiral achieve maximum value.
- Precognitive Perception isn't bad, but it's mana intensive. I wonder if Opt (which Michael Bonde's deck at the Mythic Championship is using) is worth it.
- Speaking of Michael Bonde's deck, he's running only 24 lands. Wow.
- Three Hydroid Krasis in the maindeck feels off. It doesn't need that many win conditions, since when it starts taking all the turns a single Hydroid Krasis is enough to win. It's possible it gets discarded, killed, or countered, which is why I would run two copies.
- I'm beginning to suspect including the mana dorks in the sideboard is a true stroke of genius. People are likely to board out sweepers and creature removal against this deck, making the mana dorks excellent. They (together with Opt lowering the curve) might also be why Michael Bonde's deck gets away with 24 lands. Preboard when you're going hard and fast, you don't get as much time to reach high land counts; postboard however the game is slower and you want more mana to e.g. win counterwars. That's when the mana dorks come in.

EDIT: Okay, maybe this was an emotional reaction. We'll see I guess. Even if I continue to hate Simic Nexus, it might still be the deck I most want to play.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:13 am 
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I made the changes that Bonde made and I won 2x in a row and much easier. Quicker draw into Wilderness is key. So opt works well. Counters that surveil is a good replace for the creature that counters. Seems to make the mana work better.

I like the mana dorks too. I was routinely dropping 8/8 and 9/9 Krasis' instead of 5/5 and 6/6's. Sub out Opts for the dorks?

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:05 pm 
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Bam! Got to Platinum Tier 4 off this deck. Is that good? How far does it go?

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:54 am 
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Bam! Got to Platinum Tier 4 off this deck. Is that good? How far does it go?


Only 7 more tiers, then about 10.000 people in Mythic rank to beat and get to the top 1000 :)


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:10 am 
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Congrats. My understanding is there's the rest of the Platinum tier, then the Diamond tier, and then Mythic. I think I'm still Gold 2 or something. How many wins does it take to reach Mythic? At the rate at which I'm playing (5 wins / day, plus however many games I lose), how long will it take for me to get there?

About the deck, if I continue to play Nexus, I'll certainly give the 24-land version a try, as well as the mana dork sideboard plan. I'm also looking at the Temur versions - Niv Mizzet seems like a big stick in counterspell wars, Expansion//Explosion can serve triple duty as a removal spell, a counterspell, and a win condition, and Fiery Cannonade seems like a big deal in aggro matchups. Some of these lists don't play Nexus, which is fine. We will see.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:37 am 
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Banedon wrote:
Congrats. My understanding is there's the rest of the Platinum tier, then the Diamond tier, and then Mythic. I think I'm still Gold 2 or something. How many wins does it take to reach Mythic? At the rate at which I'm playing (5 wins / day, plus however many games I lose), how long will it take for me to get there?

About the deck, if I continue to play Nexus, I'll certainly give the 24-land version a try, as well as the mana dork sideboard plan. I'm also looking at the Temur versions - Niv Mizzet seems like a big stick in counterspell wars, Expansion//Explosion can serve triple duty as a removal spell, a counterspell, and a win condition, and Fiery Cannonade seems like a big deal in aggro matchups. Some of these lists don't play Nexus, which is fine. We will see.


I don't know how many wins it takes to move up. Seems like when I'm on a winning streak it moves up quicker. Same if I'm on a losing streak, just the opposite way around.

The 24 land with mana dork sb has been working much better. But I don't know what to sb out for what. I rarely use half the cards there.

Temur would be nice, but I think it would screw up the mana too much. Now can I use Explosion in combo with Wilderness on the end step for a ton of mana damage?

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:16 pm 
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Man I just got on today and it dropped me back to Silver??

Did the season end?

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:21 am 
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Man I just got on today and it dropped me back to Silver??

Did the season end?

Yes

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