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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Bolas isn't actually in the set tho is he?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:40 pm 
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otrisk wrote:
Bolas isn't actually in the set tho is he?


Ravager is M19

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:39 am 
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divinevert wrote:
otrisk wrote:
Bolas isn't actually in the set tho is he?


Ravager is M19


Oh, gotcha. Got confused about your meaning because of that Bolas, PW masterpiece-whatever they've spoilt.

Grixis and Esper are totally where it's at now, and they're looking good at rotation. I'll miss the ole bugface though.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:03 am 
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divinevert wrote:
You think he sucks?
I think its decent win con for control


For 5 mana, he has inconsistent protection for himself. And his emblem is not anything great.

T5 you should have at least 3 spells in the GY if you have T2 search for Azcanta maybe a couple more, +1 is solid, and the emblem is legit win con, but I agree that he is worse than Chandra and Teferi.

The new counterspell is solid too, I just hope we get one draw spell with Jump Start so we have all the tools for Grixis control.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:57 am 
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What's ravnica mythic edition?

Are those Walkers playable? If so 3cc Lilly is back! Elspeth looks solid too.
Daretti looks like a fun card.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Haven_pt wrote:
What's ravnica mythic edition?

Are those Walkers playable? If so 3cc Lilly is back! Elspeth looks solid too.
Daretti looks like a fun card.
Mythic edition is WotC’s next take on the masterpiece idea (last used in BFZ/KLD/AKH blocks). None of the walkers in it will be Standard playable unless they already were.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:31 pm 
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Sinister Sabotage might be the best card spoiled so far. A strictly better Dissolve? Yes please.

Not as high on Thought Erasure; costing 2 instead of 1 is a huge deal.

Legion Warboss is like a mini-Rabblemaster; that card (with maybe a little more support) could give life to a Standard Goblin deck (with Trashmaster, Skirk Prospector, Goblin Warchief, maybe Goblin Instigator and Volley Veteran and of course our whirly friend)
Boros Challenger looks pretty good but might not quite make the cut for Constructed.

Conclave Tribunal and Necrotic Wound are both potentially cheap removal spells; both depend on how good your deck is at enabling them a bit, however.

I really want to like Emmara, but realistically speaking she's mainly a Limited card.

Ral looks decent enough to see Standard play; he's another one of the "Ob Nix class of walkers" - +1 card advantage, -3 remova, -8 ultimate that wins the game at some point (rather sooner than later).

Underrealm Lich looks sweet, not sure how good he actually is but he looks sweet.

Narcomoeba reprint wtf; Surveil/selfmil support aquired.


Overall I like the cards spoiled so far, but am slightly concerned their power level might not be there to make a big impact on Standard and mostly the cards might be roleplayers rather than archetype-driving forces. The spoiler season is still young, of course.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:32 pm 
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Modulo wrote:
Sinister Sabotage might be the best card spoiled so far. A strictly better Dissolve? Yes please.

Not as high on Thought Erasure; costing 2 instead of 1 is a huge deal.

Legion Warboss is like a mini-Rabblemaster; that card (with maybe a little more support) could give life to a Standard Goblin deck (with Trashmaster, Skirk Prospector, Goblin Warchief, maybe Goblin Instigator and Volley Veteran and of course our whirly friend)
Boros Challenger looks pretty good but might not quite make the cut for Constructed.

Conclave Tribunal and Necrotic Wound are both potentially cheap removal spells; both depend on how good your deck is at enabling them a bit, however.

I really want to like Emmara, but realistically speaking she's mainly a Limited card.

Ral looks decent enough to see Standard play; he's another one of the "Ob Nix class of walkers" - +1 card advantage, -3 remova, -8 ultimate that wins the game at some point (rather sooner than later).

Underrealm Lich looks sweet, not sure how good he actually is but he looks sweet.

Narcomoeba reprint wtf; Surveil/selfmil support aquired.


Overall I like the cards spoiled so far, but am slightly concerned their power level might not be there to make a big impact on Standard and mostly the cards might be roleplayers rather than archetype-driving forces. The spoiler season is still young, of course.


Thought Erasure has no restrictions on hitting cards and surveils. It is going to be everywhere.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:19 am 
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Modulo wrote:
Legion Warboss is like a mini-Rabblemaster; that card (with maybe a little more support) could give life to a Standard Goblin deck (with Trashmaster, Skirk Prospector, Goblin Warchief, maybe Goblin Instigator and Volley Veteran and of course our whirly friend)

Yeah, let's reprint Goblin Gangland :D

So many cool little dudes.. Warren Instigator into Goblin Ringleader..

Was that the reason for this site's name?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:32 am 
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Guildgates are back too. Wonder if they'll reprint that wall that got banned/removed from duels too.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:56 am 
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You mean Gatecreeper Vine? That was banned?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:00 am 
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Haven_pt wrote:
Guildgates are back too. Wonder if they'll reprint that wall that got banned/removed from duels too.


Gatecreeper Vine wasn't banned...they removed the guildgate lands so Gatecreeper Vine made no sense to keep in the set.

Modulo wrote:
Sinister Sabotage might be the best card spoiled so far. A strictly better Dissolve? Yes please.


No, not even. A strictly worse Dissolve, hands down. Might be better in the set with the mechanics involved, but in a vacuum Dissolve wins.

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Not as high on Thought Erasure; costing 2 instead of 1 is a huge deal.


Thought Erasure is better than any of the Duress cards...none of which you should be playing turn 1 anyway. That being said, it is still a sideboard card, with benefits. I imagine the tryhards will use it maindeck as a 4-of, but it really should be cut out and put into the sideboard for most decks (based off of what has been spoiled so far).

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Legion Warboss is like a mini-Rabblemaster; that card (with maybe a little more support) could give life to a Standard Goblin deck (with Trashmaster, Skirk Prospector, Goblin Warchief, maybe Goblin Instigator and Volley Veteran and of course our whirly friend)
Boros Challenger looks pretty good but might not quite make the cut for Constructed.


Legion Rabbleboss is a more-fair Rabblemaster...he won't kill you on his own like Rabblemaster could and often did. Still a solid looking card that still needs to be answered. Concur with Boros Challenger, though I suspect Mentor stacks so putting him out turn 2, Rabbleboss turn 3 attack for 4 damage, turn 5 pump him attack with a 2/3, a 3/3, and w 2/2's will be a good start. Now pair it with a turn-4 Heroic Reinforcements for hilarity...

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Conclave Tribunal and Necrotic Wound are both potentially cheap removal spells; both depend on how good your deck is at enabling them a bit, however.


Conclave Tribunal is a strictly better Heiromancer's Cage. Ixilan's Binding is still better than both of them, though a combination of the 3 would help the matches where your opponent is also playing the Binding as a 4-of.

Necrotic Wound is a cheap removal spell that you can't play early. The exile clause is relevant but we still have lots of exile effects in standard...though not many at instant speed.

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I really want to like Emmara, but realistically speaking she's mainly a Limited card.


Emmara is good and likely to be busted in a deck that can repeatedly tap/untap her. Might not be standard that breaks her though, and maybe not yet.

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Ral looks decent enough to see Standard play; he's another one of the "Ob Nix class of walkers" - +1 card advantage, -3 remova, -8 ultimate that wins the game at some point (rather sooner than later).


Ral is boring PW design. Cost the same as Teferi, does a worse job of defending himself. Flip Bolas from M19 is way better.

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Underrealm Lich looks sweet, not sure how good he actually is but he looks sweet.


UL is a card that looks to come into its power when Ixilan rotates. Right now, it's a really cool ability attached to a body that does nothing when it CitP. It basically has text that says "exile me" or "opponent discards a Lightning Strike, you lose 4 life". One hell of a draw engine if neither happens though.

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Narcomoeba reprint wtf; Surveil/selfmil support aquired.


I would hope they print something with more benefit than a 1/1 flyer. Then again, probably better if they don't.

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Overall I like the cards spoiled so far, but am slightly concerned their power level might not be there to make a big impact on Standard and mostly the cards might be roleplayers rather than archetype-driving forces. The spoiler season is still young, of course.


Agreed. Though I think, like most spoiler seasons, the impact for the majority of the cards will take a backseat to the more established cards. Though, being Ravnica, the prevalence of dual color decks should rise significantly.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:40 am 
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Kryder wrote:
Modulo wrote:
Sinister Sabotage might be the best card spoiled so far. A strictly better Dissolve? Yes please.


No, not even. A strictly worse Dissolve, hands down. Might be better in the set with the mechanics involved, but in a vacuum Dissolve wins.

Quote:
Not as high on Thought Erasure; costing 2 instead of 1 is a huge deal.


Thought Erasure is better than any of the Duress cards...none of which you should be playing turn 1 anyway. That being said, it is still a sideboard card, with benefits. I imagine the tryhards will use it maindeck as a 4-of, but it really should be cut out and put into the sideboard for most decks (based off of what has been spoiled so far).


Agreed with most of what you said, but disagree with these 2 points.

- I think Surveil is better than Scry, so Sinister Sabotage is better than Dissolve. I think you may have been thinking of Disallow. No, it's definitely weaker than Disallow, but I do think it's stronger than Dissolve.

Thought Erasure, between it's wide net and its ability to surveil, is a great proactive turn 2 play. No, it's not a 4-of, but I absolutely believe it will be maindeckable.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:46 am 
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Not impressed by Firemind's Research. It looks like it will be too clunky to be very solid, especially when you still have Search for Azcanta filling the same spot better.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Sol77_bla wrote:
Modulo wrote:
Legion Warboss is like a mini-Rabblemaster; that card (with maybe a little more support) could give life to a Standard Goblin deck (with Trashmaster, Skirk Prospector, Goblin Warchief, maybe Goblin Instigator and Volley Veteran and of course our whirly friend)

Yeah, let's reprint Goblin Gangland :D


Whoops, actually forgot to mention Siege-Gang Commander. Silly me.

Kryder wrote:
Modulo wrote:
Sinister Sabotage might be the best card spoiled so far. A strictly better Dissolve? Yes please.


No, not even. A strictly worse Dissolve, hands down. Might be better in the set with the mechanics involved, but in a vacuum Dissolve wins.


I'd prefer a card in my graveyard to a card at the bottom of my library anytime. Excess lands/cards that are bad in the matchup don't get shuffled back by anything, creatures and spells are more accessible in the yard and enable all kinds of synergies. All of this is better than potentially dying to mill 1 turn later.


divinevert wrote:
Thought Erasure has no restrictions on hitting cards and surveils. It is going to be everywhere.


Kryder wrote:
Thought Erasure is better than any of the Duress cards...none of which you should be playing turn 1 anyway. That being said, it is still a sideboard card, with benefits. I imagine the tryhards will use it maindeck as a 4-of, but it really should be cut out and put into the sideboard for most decks (based off of what has been spoiled so far).


Thought Erasure's one gimmick is that it's potentially maindeckable because it isn't quite as dead in many match-ups as Duress (which is amazing in some matchups and horrendous in others). That's the main extent of its usefulness though; if the creature half were relevant cards like Divest and Harsh Scrutiny would see more play than they do. As it is, being a Divest/Duress split card plus Surveil 1 is not worth one extra mana (much less coloured mana) IMO; especially since casting Duress turn 1 (which, contrary to Kryder's statement, is perfectly fine in the matchups where you board it in IMO since it disrupts the opposing plan during the development phase) does not come at a huge cost, as opposed to Thought Erasure, which has you tap out for your turn 2 (instead of leaving up Essence Scatter, Anticipate or a removal spell). It's also easier to leave up spells alongside Duress than it is to leave them up alongside Erasure (you need 1 mana less and have lesser colour restrictions).
It might be a 1-, maybe 2-of inclusion in some maindecks, but these decks have to question themselves whether they're better off sideboarding additional Duresses if possible IMO.

And yeah, Firemind's Research is almost strictly a commander card IMO.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Modulo wrote:
Thought Erasure's one gimmick is that it's potentially maindeckable because it isn't quite as dead in many match-ups as Duress (which is amazing in some matchups and horrendous in others). That's the main extent of its usefulness though; if the creature half were relevant cards like Divest and Harsh Scrutiny would see more play than they do. As it is, being a Divest/Duress split card plus Surveil 1 is not worth one extra mana (much less coloured mana) IMO; especially since casting Duress turn 1 (which, contrary to Kryder's statement, is perfectly fine in the matchups where you board it in IMO since it disrupts the opposing plan during the development phase) does not come at a huge cost, as opposed to Thought Erasure, which has you tap out for your turn 2 (instead of leaving up Essence Scatter, Anticipate or a removal spell). It's also easier to leave up spells alongside Duress than it is to leave them up alongside Erasure (you need 1 mana less and have lesser colour restrictions).
It might be a 1-, maybe 2-of inclusion in some maindecks, but these decks have to question themselves whether they're better off sideboarding additional Duresses if possible IMO.

And yeah, Firemind's Research is almost strictly a commander card IMO.


Hitting everything means it isn't comparable to Divest or Duress. It doesn't have a matchup where it is dead. It also can never blank, because it will always surveil. It always provides some benefit to you. You'll still see Duress, but in decks running blue, Thought Erasure is just a better option imo.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:12 pm 
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I can`t understand how Dissolve is better than Sinister Sabotage, a card in the GY is a card you have plenty of ways to interact with... while a card in the bottom of your library is a dead card.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Divs, yep...I meant Disallow. Sinister Sabotage is way better than Dissolve. What I get for typing that out on the phone...

As far as Turn 1 Duress/Divest/Harsh Scrutiny...it is almost always better to let them have a few turns to draw more cards to get a better pick from what they have in hand. Playing them turns 2-4 gives you more options than turn 1...that's just simple math. The only issue with the extra mana requirement is that it is colored and will lock you to playing Dimir or Grixis...which may not be that bad of a thing anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Some new cards have been spoiled. I'll go over the more interesting ones.

Deadly Visit is my early contender for best common in the set for Limited. 5 mana is expensive, but destroying a creature plus Surveil 2 is really good value for it.

Status // Statue is a really interesting split card. First off: Return of Hybrid mana. Second off: Cheap combat trick on the one side versus versatile removal on the other side at instant speed. This might be standard playable if not for the existence of Vraska's Contempt.

You don't want your big bad Convoked creature to eat removal? Try Arboretum Elemental. To be real though, Vine Mare is just more consistent and quite possibly just more efficient.

Jump Start continues to not really impress me; the best card spoiled so far is a Think Twice with Flashback 1U Discard a card instead of 2U. To be fair, the spoilers thus far have been commons only aside from a janky rare, so not all hope is lost.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:05 pm 
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Modulo wrote:
Some new cards have been spoiled. I'll go over the more interesting ones.

Deadly Visit is my early contender for best common in the set for Limited. 5 mana is expensive, but destroying a creature plus Surveil 2 is really good value for it.

Status // Statue is a really interesting split card. First off: Return of Hybrid mana. Second off: Cheap combat trick on the one side versus versatile removal on the other side at instant speed. This might be standard playable if not for the existence of Vraska's Contempt.

You don't want your big bad Convoked creature to eat removal? Try Arboretum Elemental. To be real though, Vine Mare is just more consistent and quite possibly just more efficient.

Jump Start continues to not really impress me; the best card spoiled so far is a Think Twice with Flashback 1U Discard a card instead of 2U. To be fair, the spoilers thus far have been commons only aside from a janky rare, so not all hope is lost.


Just take Radical Idea for an example. It gives any random land draw cycling at instant speed after you play it or, more likely, dump it into your graveyard with Surveil/Ascanta/etc. Direct Current turns lands into an expensive Shock. That's the benefit of Jump-Start. It gives you a massive toolbox to play with. These two innocuous cards, both commons, have decent utility and power. If they don't give us a better version of Radical Idea, I wouldn't be shocked at all to see decks start running that.

Sonic Assault, though a bit niche, would be a potentially useful tool in Izzet Wizards Aggro or something like that. Trigger prowess, pings the opponent, taps down a blocker, and can be recast from the yard if you are out of gas.

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Last edited by divinevert on Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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