Hey,

my situation:
I am a f2p player for about 3 weeks now and have some background experience from Duels. I haven't spent any rare or mythic Wildcards yet.

This is the deck I'm referring to:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-mono-green-stompy-50868#paper

My best deck so far looks like this:


First, the obvious: I have removed several of those Mythics in an effort to avoid too strong opposing decks. Does this even work? The matchmaking feels really awkward. Sometimes I win everything, then I lose everything. Often I think my deck never had a shot to beat that opponent.

Now about the comparison to the meta deck:
Which rares have the biggest impact? Though this is a "mono" green deck, it features 8 rare BG lands only to support the Scrapheap Scrounger's graveyard ability. I have this card in a Zombie deck, but would this be the biggest improvement for me?
Or should I rather purchase the raw power of Steel Leaf Champion?

Also, is my curve too expensive? I don't feel like I have many relevant 2 or 3 drops in my (un-)common pool. My 4 and 5 drops appear to be much stronger, especially given that I get to 5 mana quite easily with 24 lands and multiple dorks. Why do the pros end at 3cmc?

One reason I could think of are counter . Would I fare better if I could cast two creatures a turn so they can only counter the first? This sounds logical to me but then I don't see how I shall have so many cards.

Last question:
Reason for no removal? I really like Rabid Bite and its cousins but the pros don't run it. Is it because it's a dead draw vs control and "win more" vs other creature decks?

Steel Leaf is huge, it's what the deck revolves around. Scrapheap is a strong card, but if you're not playing with a sideboard you miss the other options that black gives you so for starting out with the deck I'd say ignore black for now and focus on the green cards first. Just be aware that you'll do worse against control without the recursive scrapheap.

You do want to aim for a lower curve, but the cards needed to make the deck really good like that are rare (more rampagers, Thorn Lieutenant) so for now I wouldn't worry too much about curve, but you will win less than you could be. One thing to note about the landbase is that it's actually 20 lands+4 pump spells disguised as lands. Ideally you want to be killing them on turn 4 or 5, so running 4/5 drops isn't helpful to that goal. As for removal, the deck needs a lot of creatures since it sets out to get ghalta out asap, plus it wants to consistently curve out strongly - and honestly the removal won't do much since the creatures the deck has problems with need to be exiled not killed. If you're finding the removal useful then by all means keep it in.

You need more Blossoming Defense and they're not rare - replacing the enchantment so that you're removing a 2-1 against you (they kill enchanted creature with 1 card, you lose 2 cards, I know casting it on vine mare is nice, but bit niche) for keeping you creature alive cheaply/a good combat trick.

Given that your curve is high I'd run Nissa, Vital Force for sure, and probably Vivien Reid too, over whichever 5 drops you like least.. Another non rare card I'd be looking to craft more of would be Thrashing Brontodon since it's just so useful in a few different matchups, though I'd be making 4 Steel Leaf first! Merfolk Branchwalker is a decent substitute 2 drop for the Scroungers for now too.

It's a very wildcard intensive deck to make but you seem to have a nice foundation, good luck with it!

tldr: 4 Steel Leaf, 4 Blossoming , 3-4 Brontodon, 4 Merfolk Branchwalker. That's a good, non-rare, start.

I would never weaken my own deck to try to manipulate the matchmaker, especially in the beta. The field is too small, I'm often matched up against basically starter decks and my deck is completely fitted out.

Thank you very much for this detailed response.

Before reading this I started the Young CGB vid and picked up the hint to try Quick Constructed. Afaik the matchmaking in that mode doesn't take deck strength into account so I tried to do the best with what I had:



Finished 2-3 and 4-3 and picked up 4 rares among the gained cards, so I feel decently compensated. Some losses were very rough because of opposing mythics and at least 2 were to those obnoxious "I don't do **** but look at my counter-twig" UW(b) decks. Some of the wins were that lopsided too, so the player base is probably really small still. We need to grow it!

Now I've picked up your input, invested some wildcards and came up with this for a new shot at Quick Constructed tomorrow:



What do you think?

@divinevert: Yes, it feels bad to not bring your shiniest toys. But then I thought, rather play with mediocre toys against mediocre toys trying to find the most efficient ones.

An easy switch and quick improvement is -1 Multani, +1 Vine Mare.

Player name?

I'd honestly just netdeck something

Based on my experience playing against the deck with R/B midrange, the most problematic card you don't have is Thorn Lieutenant. It should be better than Untamed Kavu since you probably won't get to kick the Kavu very often. It's a rare card though, so yeah.

Among the other cards I'm suspicious of Heart of Kiran since without Scrapheap Scrounger, crewing it could be hard. Rishkar / Gearhulk are also suspect - those go best with Winding Constrictor, which you aren't running. Four Brontodons ... perhaps you could run some Reclamation Sage instead since its effect is immediate.

Also lol @ divinevert still meeting starter decks. I meet like 60-70% red decks, usually with good cards and all. It might be a different platform or something.

That new list looks a lot stronger for sure! I think that for the next rare it would be a good idea to get another Ghalta for some extra consistency in drawing him, and then aim for a Rhonas. Thorn Lieutenant is great vs red, but I'd get 2 more ghaltas before I thought about crafting those. Be interesting to see how the plainswalkers do, quite top heavy atm, but they're strong cards.

@Benedon Brontodons are far better than sages in this list - they're 3/4s so the can brick chainwhirlers and are much bigger than what other decks are doing on turn 3. You don't have to hold them, you just curve out, apply pressure, reduce the cost of ghalta and then, if needed, you can kill an artifact/enchantment. They're great for making cast out/seal away much weaker cards - if you swing and they cast one you can let it resolve put the trigger on the stack and (assuming they're targeting something other than the brontodon) then sac to kill the enchantment before the exile effect happens and the attack goes through. Same with Heart of Kiran, you can attack in, if they activate heart you can sac after activation, meaning they lost the heart and another potential blocker - if they don't activate you can just hit them.

Mh, I take it that you are right given the gap in experience, but could you elaborate as to why? Strictly because Vine Mare can help the goal of a t5 kill which Multani obviously can't?
I thought he was one of the strongest cards, he even appeared in the top category of DOM limited reviews. I know, constructed isn't DOM draft, but still, isn't he very good against UW-counter decks because of the recursion?

Thinking about it, I don't remember a game that he was won me. In fact, he should've won me one for the reasons stated above but then the do-nothing-guy resolved his second Approach of the Second Sun

Such a shame that we don't have Gaea's Revenge

edit: I found something
First thing at home is gonna be a playset of Prowling Serpopard. I already feel in love
Not sure about Carnage Tyrant.

Oh and my ingame name is Sol77, just like my old account here which I couldn't recover.


Well, I can't afford the full net deck
Also I want to learn/improve my deckbuilding as well, this is at least equally fun to me compared to actually playing. However I hate losing all the time, so I browse the internet for information.

I see why you dislike Thorn Lieutenant as aggro, there was a similar elf in Duels with a 2/3 body for 2. He's obviously better than my Kavus (for 2 that is), but I don't want to spend all rare wildcards just yet.

About the Scrapheap Scrounger's crewing ability, I think that the Merfolk Branchwalker suggested by AD fills that role quite well, either I get a land or she can crew.

About the two rares that provide counters: Do I have better choices? I'm not aware of better non-rare cards for they both provide a lot of raw stats for their cost despite not running the BG snake.

And for the artifact destruction, I followed the same reasoning as AD: I see their primary function to be a cost-efficient 3-drop. When the need arises they can destroy something important but they're not limited to that.


Thank you. I will see how it fares tonight. I already thought about another Ghalta but didn't purchase him yet. Vivien is great, I got her early and she's won many games, I just cut her recently for "deck strength"-reasons. Haven't resolved Nissa yet.
I ran into several Rhonas yesterday and you're right, that card is ridiculous. I'm just not sure if I want to put everything into this deck. I'm not that mono green allday everyday guy that you might take me for given my brief post history
Hope I can use that Brontodon guide before I forget about it

Vine Mare is just much more valuable.

1. The difference between 4 and 6 mana is huge.
2. Hexproof > Trample and reach
3. The recursion is less valuable since, UW-counter decks have plenty of exile effects (Seal Away, Settle the Wreckage, Syncopate) or other ways to slow him down (bury him with Teferi or Commit, bounce, etc.). A fair number of those removal spells (like Seal Away) and damn near every UB Control runs, Vine Mare blanks.

Mono green stompy probably isn't winning the long game with UW control. Vine Mare can't be blocked by black creatures, which makes him a house vs. Zombies/Knights/etc.

If they both cost the same, there would be a serious debate, but Vine Mare can potentially slam on T3 with mana dorks. Obviously, your end-goal win con is Carnage Tyrant, but an extra Vine Mare is better than Multani as a placeholder option.

I second Vine Mare. I play Grixis Control and it is a pain. I have ways to deal with it, but I need to either have a sweeper in hand or I need it to be the only creature on board. If neither of those conditions apply, I can't stop it. My potential blockers are black, so they are useless.

Hexproof makes it gold vs most control decks. At the very least, it throws off their game plan.

Plenty of times I'll have Cast Out, Seal Away, and Fumigate in hand vs. Green decks. They'll slam threats, I Fumigate, and then they slam Vine Mare and I weep uncontrollably.

Vine Mare is very good against control, though still weak to settle, but it's not particularly good against red. To me it's a sideboard card, but there's certainly times in bo1 were it'd have been real useful. If it were uncounterable I'd be maindecking it, as it is I don't think the upside is worth it in a low curve list operating in a predominantly r/b meta - though I agree it'd be better than multani (or most 5 drops) for sure.

If control was more common I could certainly see playing even a full 4 of them.

Oh but don't you also hold Essenc Scatter, Disallow and Sycopate?

I see all the Vine Mare praise though. Maybe I'll craft 2 more.

For now I've played 2 sets of Quick Constructed with this:


Fun fact, I didn't see any counter magic at all. But I don't mind, I like my new Cat Serpent friends. I got 6 and 5 wins, so that was ok.

The losses were:
1: mana flood (9 lands in 16 cards)
2: mana screw (3 lands in 16 cards, could've won this against most decks though, was against Turbo Fog)
3: one very synergistic mono white cat lifegain deck
4: Turbo Fog again.. I thought he would deck himself and he did get down to a library of 5, but then I saw that his Nexus of Fate would make that impossible. So I conceded to save myself some time. Let him play with himself with another spectator He never touched me.
5: Mirror, I was on the draw, it was a close race that I was optimistic of winning, but then he resolved Ghalta and I just don't see anything in my deck to beat or even stop him.
6: some funny mono white wheenie stuff with Dusk and Angel of Inventions

On the wins I got many early concedes. With Llanowar elves and so many 3-drops, this deck starts out explosively most of the time. I never resolved either Nissa or Vivien and I only included Nissa because I want to see her in action. I'd guess that 2x Vivien would be better.

What do you guys think? How to handle Turbo Fog? Splash red for Banefire and other ways of non-combat-damage?

edit: last run for today, 4-0 into 4-3 vs mono blue artifacts, rdw and mono white life gain cats again.

Turbo fog is a real problem for the deck, even a tighter list that'll curve out stronger isn't going to have a good time vs fog. Basically you need to get lucky. I've ran a red green version through 2 quick leagues that's much stronger vs fog, yet to lose to it, but the normal version is heavily unfavoured. The problem is you need a bunch of rare lands to make it worth it since you absolutely need to be able to play steel leaf on 3. The card I went red for is Insult // Injury not Banefire mind.

I see, that card is really nice. But yes, that'd put me back in need of rare dual lands, which was the very first topic of this thread
Let's just hope Turbo Fog doesn't become too popular, given that it takes about an hour to actually win without a Concede (from what I've seen as opponents). If only there was AI-takeover to punish them

Yeah, your best bet against Turbo Fog is RDW with reach and counter-based control giving them fits, thus resulting in fewer people running it.

Green Stompy is just going to be losing its mind against Turbo Fog unless they brick out very hard. There's no trick you can really add that's going to make that a favorable matchup. I have the same issue with Selesnya Angels and I just shrug and lose when I bump into Turbo Fog.

Yeah, not much fun vs Turbo Fog
But I found out that the game knocks you out pretty fast if you just go afk. I figured, my timers would just run out and then auto-pass priority. I was gone for only ~3-4 minutes but came back to the "defeated" screen. So if you want to punish them and let them spend 30 mins to actually kill you, you must click your buttons.

Despite that, I did have 2 good runs with this list: both ended 7-2 and the losses were RDW (3x) and Turbo Fog. I feel much improved vs UW (which was very important for some reason), even in games without Prowling Serpopards or Vine Mares. Nissa, Vital Force and Vivien Reid are an amazing duo.

However I feel that I have a new biggest weakness, which are tribal decks. I often feel helpless vs Cats for I can't interact with their lords without removal. The only card to achieve anything is Skysovereign, Consul Flagship and it is quite fabulous. But when there are two Regal Caracals or just one Leonin Warleader, the Flagship can't nuke that anymore.

Are those matchups all about Ghalta? Zombies I can race sometimes, but those cats with all their lifegain.. tell me how

I normally crush cats. The lifegain is irrelevant since we swing for so much, their creatures are small and the only thing that can really contest the board is a big pridemate but that's usually too slow. It's quite rare that they can even double block a steel leaf - caracal can't contest a single steel leaf and it comes down 2 turns later when they're facing lethal every turn. And yeah, a turn 3-5 ghalta just smashes them.

It sounds like you're a little too slow for them, running the serpopards and plainswalkers and only 1 ghalta gives you an advantage against some control draws but it also hurts you against r/b, mono red and maybe cats too. Despite the big creatures mono green is basically an aggro deck, it's not looking to play a midrange game (since then it'd need to match grixis or ub mid, and it fails hard at that). To put it another way - your pws come down on 5, if they were ghalta they could be hitting the table up to 2 turns earlier (or they could rot in your hand if your opponent just removes everything you cast, but you're likely not winning that game with a plainswalker either).

Ok thanks, so in that matchup I need to be the aggressor. I thought so but wasn't sure. Sometimes I can get 20 damage in but still lose due to all those incremental life gains. And when they start with their t4+ cards, I just never get the chance to attack on the ground again.

Seems logical that a consistent early Ghalta nukes them before they can stabilize. You'd cut the PWs for them? Can't promise I'll do that though. The anti-U matchup is more important to me.