oh boy! Can't wait to build it

I´m not fixed on the 22 lands tho... might end up swaping one key for the 23 land, I have been reading -I realy have!- on the mana bases and land count and found this great article... here are the conclusion for lazy lurkers.
Number of lands Average CMC range Type of deck (percentages are for being on the play)
18- 0.48-0.80 -Low-curve deck – You only need 1 or 2 lands to function, and you have no 3-drops in your deck
19- 0.80-1.12 -Low-curve deck – You need 2 lands on turn 2 (97.7%) but would like 3 lands on turn 3 (76.5%) for some 3-drops
20- 1.12-1.44 -Low-curve deck – You need 2 lands on turn 2 (98.3%) but would like 3 lands on turn 3 (79.6%) for some 3-drops
21- 1.44-1.76 -Aggro deck – You need 2 lands on turn 2 every game (98.8%) but would like 3 lands on turn 3 (82.3%) for several 3-drops
22- 1.76-2.08 -Aggro deck – You need 2 lands on turn 2 every game (99.2%) but would like 3 lands on turn 3 (84.7%) for several 3-drops
23- 2.08-2.40 -Aggro deck – You need 3 lands on turn 3 in most games (86.8%); 4 lands by turn 4 (67.7%) is nice but not necessary
24- 2.40-2.72 -Midrange deck – You need 3 lands on turn 3 in most games (88.7%); 4 lands by turn 4 is nice (71.3%) but not necessary
25- 2.72-3.04 -Midrange deck – You need your 3rd land drop (90.4%) to function and want to hit your 4th relatively often (74.7%)
26- 3.04-3.36 -Control deck – You need your 3rd land drops (91.8%) to function and want to hit your 4th relatively often (77.9%)
27- 3.36-3.68 -Control deck – You need your 4th land drop (80.8%) to function and regularly want to hit your 5th (65.3%)

This is super usefull and uses both AVERAGE CMC of the deck and the specific land drop needs of the deck, and yeah big surprise 24 lands is the general sweet spot
full article over here
Frank Karsten :How many lands?

oh man, i love that kind of blueprint. Now if only i built decks...

I`m trying to make some room for grasping dunes but I don´t know if the mana base can afford 4 colorless sources on this deck... and its pretty close... that land is great with Hapatra
I´m 10-1 with negative counters and having a blast!

I hate that card cuz u lose the land but i love anything that puts those counters out

Yeah, I think it's a mid/late game play mostly, once you've got your croc or nest out.

Yeah.... but IDK if one -1/-1 counter is worth...lossing one land, sometimes it might but In general I guess it don´t. Besides you end up lossing consistency on your sources.. I think sticking to the Westvale is enough land tech for the deck.
And westvale is far better than that filthy desert.

Figured it was better to post this here since the thread kinda relates, rather than start a new one

What decks are you still running? Specifically the ones that stick, as opposed to experimental brews?

Stuff in my deck list includes:

Strongest decks (no particular order)

1) Gruul Monsters (Legend VD's list, beatdown w/ discard subtheme)

2) Rakdos Madness Aggro (my Hell Is Where The Heart Is list from Rakdos aggro challenge)

3) Boros Valor Aggro (not my tourney list that was focused on navigating a particular meta, but a faster version I built and like better for shredding ladder play)

4) Jeskai Inevitability 2.0 (updated version of Wintervoid's Innistrad era control/mill/burn gem)

5) Temur Temerge (Nighthawk's steam showdown winning deck)


T2 - slightly less consistent but still strong/fun (no particular order)

6) Temur Fling-a-Drake (basically Giocher's list with a few minor tweaks)

7) Orzhov Zombies (my Midrange zombie list w/ Annointed Procession twist)

8) Monogreen Stompy (Nighthawk's monogreen beatdown list)

9) Azorius Popcorn (Wintervoid's Monumental Lifegain list from lifegain challenge, built around Oketra's Monument, with edits to make it less focused on meeting requirements for the challenge and more focused on winning)

10) Azorius Aggro (Cardboardnomad's Life Comes At You Fast list from the lifegain challenge)

11) Simic Superslide (my Rhonas' Monument tempo beatdown list with tons of cantrips and fun synergies)

12) Izzet Spell Surge (can't remember where I got this list - maybe Thelona? Anyways, bunch of surge spells with Docent of Perfection and the 4 mana surge-burns-2d red enchantment as payoffs)

13) Boros Divine Fury (my midrangey Boros list with angel subtheme, Always Watching, and doublestrike stuff)

14) Jund Energy Snek (my Winding Constrictor deck that I find more fun than Golgari versions)

15) Grixis Archfiend Drake (my Drake Haven discard Madness deck)

16) Dimir Vert Troll (Divinevert's control deck with Drake Haven. Got it in a PM when we were sharing ideas for Drake Haven decks. Don't believe I've ever lost with it. Soul crushing deck for opponents. Probably should be in the T1 lists, but not my preferred playstyle so I don't play it often - just when I feel like trolling. Never had an opponent stick around long enough to face lethal)

17) 4C Trials (Legend VD's trials/cartouches deck)

18) Monoblack Death (my midrange black list with some artifacts and graveyard recursion)

19) Simic Colorless Midrange (Legend VD's deck with a few card swaps)

20) Sultai Ramp (after getting too frustrated with my Simic Ramp list, I threw this together in a rush - wanting sweepers in my Ramp deck to reach lategame more consistently. Uses a couple Eldrazi creatures I haven't played with since their seasons. Surprisingly good for how quickly I built it)


JFF lists - entertaining, but not super reliable vs human opponents (no particular order)

21) 4C Sigil Trials (my Sigil of Empty Throne deck with Trials/Cartouche twist. Hella fun, but low creature density and reliance on auras for enchantment recursion makes it fragile - insane when it goes off tho)

22) 4C Earth Shakers (my superfriends with a landfall twist. Quirky fun enough that I've had it in decklists since gatewatch, updating a few cards here and there with subsequent sets)

23) Gruul Hazorat's Fury (my Aggro list built around Hazoret's Fury and the green enchantment that lets you sac a creature to draw a creature, with steal n sac sub theme. Pretty dees vs creature decks, not so hot vs creature less/lite control)

24) Orzhov Aristocats (my take on aristoCATS)

25) Boros Doublestrike Trials (my hastily thrown together Trials/Cartouches deck - way too crowded in the 3CMC slot, but somehow manages to play better than it probably should, so haven't deleted it yet)

26) Selesnya Tokens (Thelona's deck - it's wonky but fun)

The other 4 spots are for new brews. Constantly rotating stuff.

Ive only got two decks that I play now:

1) The Old Brutal radkos vehicle artifacts aggro
2) Funkopotamus’s BWU control deck. Lots of counters, removal and draw to get to P’anesw Win conditions and Emeria Shepard to bring anything back

Without a doubt, my strongest deck is Geistramp. Weak against counter decks, about even against mill, but well above 70% against anything else I've come across in the past year and a half I've been playing it. My current version runs a bit more lifegain and card draw than it did a year ago, but it works against the current field. Early Planeswalkers can be a chore but the deck usually has little issue with them as the game progresses.

My second strongest deck is mono-Red aggro. Stupid deck, but very aggressive. Subtracts from 20 very quickly. An early sweeper can be brutal but it rarely is fatal.

The third strongest deck is Bantalicious, a Bant goodstuffs deck. All value creatures, great removal/answer cards, but heavily reliant on the 3-drop slot as most Bant decks are in Duels. Deck is weak early but gets very strong in the late game.

What's your Geistramp list? I never actually played any Geistramp builds, even back when Gem's won the xbone tourney. I'd be interested in giving it a whirl.

Is your Bant list basically the standard Bant goodstuff version, or you run any interesting twists?

So Geistrampblooks like this currently...
2 x Fall of the Titans
3 x Elvish Visionary
1 x Dispacement Wave
1 x Kozilek's Return
3 x Geistblast
3 x Pulse of Murasa
4 x Pieces of the Puzzle
2 x Radiant Flames
3 x Explosive Vegetation
2 x Baral's Expertise
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa
1 x Part the Waterveil
1 x Crush of Tenticles
2 x Nissa's Renewal
3 x Spring//Mind
1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 x Commit//Memory
5 x Island
3 x Mountain
9 x Forest
2 x Cinder Glade
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Sulfur Falls


Really like this deck, does very well against the current unpredictable field in Duels. Durdely Counterspell decks, hasty decks give it some fits, but against everything else it just sits backs and wins off of either a really big Fall Geisted, several turns repeated attacking with manlands while your opponent watches helplessly, or via the Crushlock. Occasionally Ulamog shows up and mills them out but he usually eats a hard removal spell.

Pulse of Murasa used to be Grapple with the Past but I found the self-mill was not really needed that much and the extra lifegain from Pulse made up for the extra mana. I played against a white humans deck the other day and got him to concede after I had Pulsed 2 times and cast Nissa's Renewal 3 times...fun times.

The Bantolicious list...
2 x Selfless Spirit
2 x Sylvan Advocate
3 x Duskwatch Recruiter//Krallenhorde Howler
3 x Unsubstantiate
2 x Declaration in Stone
2 x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Tireless Tracker
2 x Reclamation Sage
2 x Spell Queller
3 x Reflector Mage
3 x Bounding Krasis
3 x Cast Out
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 x Archangel Avacyn//Avacyn, the Purifier
1 x Verduous Gearhulk
1 x Woodland Bellower
4 x Plains
2 x Island
4 x Forest
2 x Lumbering Falls
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Sunpetal Grove
3 x Evolving the Wilds


Just a standard Bant list I would suppose. Value creature beatdown. I tried to not make the deck toooo reliant on the 3-drop slot but it is what it is. Unsubstantiate could be pretty much anything else but it has done pretty well for me. If I were to replace it it would be for more permanent removal of some sort.

Anyways, there you go. When the servers decide to come back up give it a go and let me know your thoughts.

Sweet, thanks! Looking forward to the Geistramp deck. Temur offers some really fun duels decks. I'll let you know what I think when servers are back online

So I was able to get some games in. Lost my first two matches (completely new to the deck and really didn't know how I should be sequencing things), but won the next 3. Did some fun things, like geistcasting an awakened Part the Waterveil (name?) for 2 extra turns and 2 6/6 lands. That was pretty awesome - wasn't even sure it'd work for 2 turns when I tried it.

Cool deck. Reminds me of fling-a-drake, where you're spending the whole game setting up and strategically staying alive, and them popping off out of nowhere for the win.

Got some more games in and it def reminds me of fling-a-drake, but with more variety in paths to victory. Seems like every game I play, I discover a new cool trick the deck can do. Yesterday it was all about Commit // Memory shenanigans. Had 2 games where I had Ulamog in hand with mana to cast him but didn't even need to. Pretty weird feeling with that card...

Thanks for sharing the list!

No worries. Glad someone else is having some fun with it.

Oddly enough, Ulamog is probably the weakest card in that list.

Yeah, it's surreal. Usually he's the best card in decks that run him. I just had another game where I had him with mana to cast but had better (lethal) plays. So different from ALWAYS cast if able. It's pretty crazy

I hear ya...it's one of the reasons I miss Duels format. Coming up with zany, unusual decks and working around the restrictions of the format. Not something you have to deal with in Arena and the standard format.

I was looking for something new to play and hadn't run Bant in quite some time, so I built your list and have been playing it the past few days. It's fun, and strong. Mana base can be frustrating at times with all the multi colored 3 drops, but I don't think it can really be improved from how you have it (wouldn't want to cut Lumbering Falls cause it's won me a fair amount of games with Advocate buffs). Whenever I have all 3 colors in opening hand, I know I'm gonna win.

I'm happy with Unsubstantiate- the deck is all about tempo, and the spell does what you need it to. I don't think you could improve it by putting in a removal spell that costs more than 2 mana (would just mess with your tempo), and you already have the only good removal spell in those colors for 2CMC or less. A fight spell or Gideon's reproach would be a step backwards IMHO.

Thanks for sharing it!