I meant that Skellige discard evidently isn't one of those decks that go all-out to win round 1, pass round 2 without playing, and then aim to win round 3, so losing round 1 to them isn't that bad. Like, if you're unhappy to win round one down two cards, that's good enough indication!

What's unusual about the second example is that, so far, I've been quite comfortable passing. My sample size isn't that big, but a combination of these factors make me satisfied:

1) I've not used any weather. There're only two rounds left now, which with the typical 4x weather, is enough to force my opponent to take 4 damage / turn through one Clear Skies effect, especially with Caranthir / Frightener move effects.
2) I'm up one card.
3) I've not used any gold cards, while he has used one (the most powerful discard effect, too).
4) I probably have 4 points of carryover into round 2.

Clearly, one of us is wrong. It could be me since my sample size against Skellige discard isn't that big. What do divinevert & Hakeem think?

Scoai'Tael can try to tech for the matchup, but Dagon is the deck's natural predator.

The recent tournaments of this season (with TGI ongoing) have been conquest format and Dagon is the deck/leader that is banned in 100% of games (everyone has a Dagon deck which is both telling and a waste as they can never play it) and everyone also has a long game deck be that either mill or control (most favour Eithne but some like NG) which have good success in monsters absence. M0gwai actually won the final of the last tournament playing Niflgaard. Reaver Hunters (both Henselt and Foltest vaiants used) and discard (with Queensguard making minor appearances) usually make up the other 2 deck slots.

I'll stand by my assessment that Ciri Dash (can generate 36 points over 3 rounds on a gold body: even some discard decks are teching her now) and Avallac'h (which forces the long game and also enables mill) will end up as the premier threats of next patch (unless new cards force an archetype to the forefront).

Skellige is not an all-out win round 1 deck, but it still likes winning round 1. Having won round 1, Skellige can dictate the tempo round 2, make up for the lost card with Udalryk (which Skellige has an easier time finding a window for that the opposing faction's spy) and possibly even get ahead with a well-timed pass thanks to high-power swing plays. While Monsters prevents one of them effectively (Clan Tuirseach Skirmishers), Skellige has enough others (Captains, Coral) to find a good point to pass in general.

In our case, while you probably have 4 points of carryover, Skellige pretty much has 9; two from Morkvarg and seven from Cerys (who will enter round 2 at some point thanks to her counter being at 1). And while I arguably am down two golds (since I won't ever be playing Cerys from my hand) I'm also up two Silvers (since the Crones are down; Morkvarg is technically still there but he's not worth many points by himself and basically there to help the Cerys timer).

It's quite possible that the match-up has enough play in it for both players that it comes down to personal preference. A round 1 win is worth slightly more than being up one card in my mind (though in our case that advantage might be gone depending on how highly you value gold cards vs. silver/bronze cards), and while I like my chances in the scenario, it's possibly still close.

But then you'll also have to go first Round 2, be down a card, and be behind on power on board to start Round 2. If Monsters leads with frost/Frightener, you're going to find yourself way behind late game.

And that's a spot where Skellige got to go first, too.

As a seasoned Skellige "veteran" I can tell you that the Longships are actually win-more in most scenarios but they scare the ever-loving bejesus out of of people. That's their true power.

Opponents either expend their valuable control tools early to deal with them or they straight pass and give you a free round 1 win. I've had plenty of hands without a Longship or with just one that gets answered and it doesn't really matter.

If I had to distill the true essence of the deck's power it would be Cerys carryover with a lot of thinning to guarantee Coral. On top of that essence you pour the Pirate Captain and Skirmisher gravy. Longships really have nothing to do with it.

The reason you can get away with playing them is that you rarely get stuck with a brick in your hand. Between mulligans and discards, it's almost like they're not even in your deck after round 1.

Having to go first while being down a Card and Not ahead on board is a risk I'm already taking by playing a Longship (as the opponent could just pass right there). Also, as the Skellige player, it is not my intention to just pass R2; my intention ist to play it out, make you use up as many resources as I can get out of you, and pass at a moment where I think I have gotten the better of you.

Frost and Frightener can be played around to a degree such that I don't have to play Gremist; and it's not like Skellige falls behind in the damage race mid-term thanks to ressed Longships, Lugos and Cerys.

Like I've said before, I just generally think I can out-value Skellige in the long game with weather, so I usually just stick around and bleed them out Round 1.

FINALLY made it to 4250. I was 83-13-1 from start to 4000, and 31-19 from 4000 to 4250. I made agonizing mistakes in lots of games (never forget to check whether the opponent has the lowest-power unit before playing BTM) and suffered from "maybe I'm not good enough" thoughts but at the end of it I both got there and got better as a player. Hell, I even won a game against Dwarves where my entire starting hand except for one card was bronze (after three mulligans).

Monsters taking over the ladder is greatly exaggerated! I played against way more non-monsters decks than monsters decks. Dagon, NR combo and Skellige discard were the most common for me - virtually never ran into Francesca, Eredin, Axemen and Nilfgaard; literally never ran into Harald the Cripple.



Well the Longships ARE scary. Like, by the end of the game the Pirate Captains are typically at least 15 power. That means you've probably discarded 7-8 cards. The Longship itself is worth 6 power, so together with these 7-8 discards, they become 20-22 power bronze units. How can that not be scary?

I'm up to 4310 with a record of like 155-83 or so.

#2 in North America according to the very wonky paperboard I'm on for some reason.

Ugh, I'm done playing Dagon token swarm. It might be the "best" deck, but everyone is so fully teched up with anti-swarm cards I'm done getting tilted. Like, I can practically expect all my Nilfgaard opponents to have 2x Weather Bearers, my Axemen opponent (already a bad matchup) to have 3x Lacerate, and even my Dagon opponents have 2x Archgriffins. Enya control good matchup for Dagon? Oops, they have 3x Hawker Smuggler. That's not to mention the odd Radovid Ballista deck that loses to everything but counters Dagon swarm hard. Ridiculous.

I'm going to play something else.

I feel you; people tech vs. Dagon Swarm even if it's not good for them (like, I've seen Skellige Discard run Lacerate, wtf).




We have very similar records; I'm currently at 4318 MMR with 149-82-2 (not #2 on my continent since it's Europe )

Not sure whether I should push for 4.5k; probably not since it would take much time.


In other regards, what are your people's thoughts on NG Reveal? Since my Discard deck is done and I opened a couple great NG legendaries, I thought this would be my next deck to build.

Pure reveal is awful, but Alchemist into Daerlan Foot Soldier is a decent amount of power with card draw and something I run in Dashgaard.

I haven't played Nilfgaard since single player so take what I say with a grain of salt. I feel like Nilfgaard is the weakest faction and generally don't mind queuing into them. They simply lack good cards. Reveal is not exactly bad I guess, but you're going to great lengths to make your Fire Scorpions 12 power - and even then, you're revealing cards in your hand, not theirs, and the information works against you. They do have some good cards but not enough of them. It's up to you to experiment I guess but I would avoid Nilfgaard.

I'm also looking for a new deck since I quit playing Dagon. I tend to like attrition decks, or decks that generate lots of value over time. I particularly like weather - I started playing Eredin control because the monsters starter deck was a weather deck. However decks with multiple silver weather together with Dimeritium Shackles (or similar) appear to be quite rare right now. I certainly never run into them. Other cards that could do the same might be Yennefer: Conjurer and Triss: Butterfly (but my Triss Butterfly died with Dagon ). Any suggestions?

You could always go back to non-swarm Eredin.

I've said it before and ill say it again..... real men play Skellige. Obviously discard is good but according to the description of what you want from a deck, Axemen looks like it could be a good fit for you.

That's what I've been playing. Currently exploring the intricacies of Old Speartip vs. Caretaker vs. Igni etc. I crafted Old Speartip a while ago and have mixed feelings about him. He's not terrible, but he's also been rather unspectacular. Doing damage to a lot of units is nice, but you don't actually kill them. That allows key units like Hawker Support etc to continue to generate value. I've yet to be able to flip him twice and I suspect that's something that happens quite rarely. It's possible I'm being too conservative with him. With a card like Imlerith, I usually save it to kill some important unit like the first Reaver Hunter; with Old Speartip, maybe he's "just" a high value play similar to Fire Elemental. Having said that right now I'm back to using Succubus, since Eredin is weak to high-power units otherwise, even with BTM / Scorch (which is just one card that may not even be drawn). I'd rather have two decks I can switch between though.

Will take a look at Axemen, although there's a psychological barrier between playing Dagon and switching to the biggest, baddest and nastiest anti-Dagon deck out there!

EDIT: Damn, I don't have Coral

Coral is a safe craft right now if you can scrounge the scraps because she will be nerfed, so you'll be able to mill her for full value come the patch if you so choose and craft another legendary instead.

Preview of some leader changes from the upcoming patch:



Harald the Cripple now changed to at the start of your turn deal 1 damage to the weakest enemy unit on the opposing row (ignoring armor). This is the best they could do? The card was terrible and the solution is to make it a sh*t Yen:Con?

Brouver Hoog changed to now you play a silver unit OR a bronze dwarf.

Eredin has the same ability, just a strength change.

Emhyr buff - first you play a card from your hand, then you take one ally silver or bronze unit back to your hand.

Radovid now has a Crewman: 1 Tag + Same ability as before.

Confirm the correctness of that translation (based on the picture)

I guess Harald isn't strictly a bad Yenn: Con since he does have higher base strength and since he can actually kill units, but yeah, that does not look like a good leader. Yenn: Con's ability to hit more than one unit at a time should easily be better than this.

If they're nerfing Eredin, hopefully they're also buffing some of the Wild Hunt units, because I do not think he's overpowered as a leader.

I don't understand the Radovid buff. He's 5 power, locks two units, and does up to 8 damage. Since locks are worth like 4 power (compare Cleaver / Fiend) that actually seems on the overpowered side. If he's not seeing much play it's because Henselt / Foltest work better with the Reaver Hunter plan. Why the buff?