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 Post subject: Popcorn
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:31 pm 
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So, I played Giocher recently, and he had a very interesting Tokens deck that ran pretty smoothly. I had given a passing attempt to make a token deck, but nothing I was really satisfied with. But Giocher inspired me, so I started trying soem different variations.

What I settled on was a Boros deck. It started out that I was building around Anointed Procession but ended up more a Valor in Akros deck using the Anointed's as a semi 4th and 5th Valor. And they combo well together if you happen to get both out.

I settled on red because of two main cards, Hanweir Garrison and Kari Zev, Skyship Raider. Both make Valor deadly the turn you play Valor, even if it is on T4.

The most deadly combo though, is T4 Valor, followed by T5 Sram's Expertise and free casting Thopter Engineer off Sram's. That is 21 points you will be sending on T5 even if you only have Valor on the board and no creatures. It turns the deck into a semi Combo deck. I was talking to giocher about this deck when I drew Valor...and steamed the inevitable outcome as an example for this write up. So this clip is started part way through the game. But here is the combo in action. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/156638433

Anyway, here is the deck.

Popcorn

Creature(25)
4 x Sacred Cat
2 x Hanweir Militia Captain
2 x Selfless Spirit
4 x Annointer Priest
2 x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
2 x Master Trinketeer
3 x Thopter Engineer
2 x Hanweir Garrison
2 x Pia Nalaar
1 x Oketra the True
1 x Angel of Invention

Sorcery(4)
2 x Collective Effort
2 x Sram's Expertise

Enchantment(5)
3 x Valor in Akros
2 x Anointed Procession

Planeswalker(2)
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Chandra, Flamecaller

Land(24)
11 x Plains
2 x Needle Spires
7 x Mountain
2 x Clifftop Retreat
2 x Westvale Abbey


To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 145ef972cc

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com


Most of the deck is pretty self explanatory, but I am sure people will wonder why Pia Nalaar instead of Pia and Kiran Nalaar. Honestly, it may be a bad switch, but the 4cc slot is pretty crowded, and RR can be hard to hit in this deck at times on T4. The ability to hit the face along with an extra Thopter may be worth the extra R casting cost.

This deck is normally VERY aggressive. No removal means you are generally racing your opponent. When it works, it is a thing of beauty, when it doesn't....well.....there is always the next game. Also, this deck has the ability to completely turn around a game for a surprise win at times. I am normally a control player, but this deck has just been too much fun :)

Oh...and the name is because the deck seems to just simmer along and then at random times, just explode.

Edit: Here are the endings of the last few games I played. I had another one w/ the Sram/Valor combo available, but didn't record until too late.:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/156658097

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/156658955

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:42 pm 
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1-2 borrowed grace ? valor is ok procession feels too slow.

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:08 pm 
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1-2 borrowed grace ? valor is ok procession feels too slow.


Procession is Valors weaker sibling. Still...it lets me do stuff like this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/156674264

The deck is all about the highlight plays :P

Borrowed Grace may be good, but I hate situational cards. One of my blind spots in deck building I am sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:11 pm 
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Well grace kind of serves the same purpose as valor, right? only difference is instant vs permanent. they are both situational meaning they need a board presense but that's all your deck's plan :D I think a couple should play pretty well and present a great lethal threat T4-T5. This deck is a blast to play in 2hg... In 1v1, you could suffer from insufficient removals. One of the solutions is to have a way to race the aggro / vehicles opponent. borrowed grace is the ultimate tool for that~

well I say this because I lost to this deck twice.. one was the sram into thopter engineer 20+ damage, the other was borrowed grace T4. Not much I could do.

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:44 pm 
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I would run Chandra, Torch of Defiance instead of Chandra, Flamecaller. I understand her +1 combos well with Valor, but I think you'll rarely want to activate her other two abilities, especially the sweep with all your weenie tokens.
I don't think her +1 alone justifies the 6cmc cost when the cheaper Chandra brings more versatility to the table. Then you could probably cut a land if curving out at 4cmc, having just the one 5cmc Angel.

Those Westvale Abbeys should be a regular wincon in this deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:48 am 
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I'd try out Bloodlust Inciter. Why? It adds extra speed and surprises with both Kari and garrison.
Think goldfish:
T1 Inciter
T2 Kari. 3 Damage.
T3 garrison. 7 Damage.
T4 valor. 15 damage. GG.

Magic christmas Land stuff, but gives a little extra oomph and Inciter is always a threat of hasting something nasty and can draw removal away from your bigger threats. Makes opponents fear tapping out.

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:05 pm 
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Where is Dragon Fodder?


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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Wintervoid wrote:
1-2 borrowed grace ? valor is ok procession feels too slow.


Procession is Valors weaker sibling. Still...it lets me do stuff like this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/156674264

The deck is all about the highlight plays :P

Borrowed Grace may be good, but I hate situational cards. One of my blind spots in deck building I am sure.


?

This is a Valor/Procession deck? What do you mean you hate situational cards?

:p


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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:32 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
Wintervoid wrote:
1-2 borrowed grace ? valor is ok procession feels too slow.


Procession is Valors weaker sibling. Still...it lets me do stuff like this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/156674264

The deck is all about the highlight plays :P

Borrowed Grace may be good, but I hate situational cards. One of my blind spots in deck building I am sure.


?

This is a Valor/Procession deck? What do you mean you hate situational cards?

:p


I mean I hate cards that require others to be good unless they have a very high power level. Valor and Procession already can be dead cards if you don't have a board presence, so that is 5 cards already that rely on a specific board state. I am reluctant to add others. Now, I am not saying that is the correct decision, I know it is a blind spot of mine, to undervalue situational cards (I.E. cards that are dead on their own). Every card is a decent card to top deck when behind except the Enchantments. The weakest cards are the Cats, Hanweir Captain and Pia. The cats fill a few slots for lifegain and late Enchantment triggers, so it has earned it's spot. The bear of a captain has the ability to grow huge in this deck, so at the least, it east removal. Pia....I am not so sure about. That would be my first cut. She doesn't combo like Engineer, nor does she put a ton of pressure on my opponent. Her abilities are more suited to a deck that has open mana or a single large threat to get through a single blocker. I mean, they are helpful, but not game changing like some of the other cards can be.

TBH, this deck generally wins by combo or by pressure turn after turn of 3/4 3/3's attacking. I go have games where I can go very wide, but generally, there is enough removal, I am more counting on Valor to pump creatures. There are other ways to win such as Abby, Oketa, Planeswalkers and Hanweir's, but they are the back up plan. Even Procession is more of a stall tactic, or can enable some of the other win cons. The goal is not to go wide, but to combo. Wide just happens to be a byproduct.

As far as some of the other suggestions:

Little Chandra may make some sense. It gives another path to victory that Fog can't stop, it gives you card draw and mana that the deck needs. My only issue is RR and 4 CC. I have other things I want to cast T4, and I often do not have RR until 5-6 mana. I would say that the mana base could be adjusted to make it work, but the bottom line is that I just enjoy playing big Chandra more. 4 3/1's or 2 5/3's on demand has won me a few games. I think only one game I have drawn her have I lost. Also, I have used the sweeping ability from time to time. This deck can reload fairly quickly, especially if I know a sweep is coming, and there have been a few games where I was not the wide deck.

Inciter....is a good idea. I think I will test a few in place of Pia. Besides the haste, a 1 mana trigger of Valor can be useful. Haste could really increase the value of Valor.

Dragon fodder is really only good with the Enchantments already out, and I am trying to not make the deck too reliant on them. I think I would rather go the white instant for 3 mana before fodder. It was in earlier versions, but just seemed to not do enough for me. Maybe I just didn't lay with them long enough.

Anyway, I know this version is different than most, but so far, it has been fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:51 pm 
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I think she makes all kinds of sense but people love to shrug off my advice :roll::V. I don't know that you necessarily have to cast her on turn 4.. I think there'd be occasions where I'd be happier to cast the smaller Chandra even if I had 6 mana (4 direct damage instead of a sweep, or extra draw/mana, and an ultimate that's actually a wincon).
She has the same colour demand as big Chandra, so I'm not sure how that's an issue. Chuck in a couple of Aether Hubs, problem solved.
Think of the lovely 1-2 extra spells you could include by cutting lands with a 4cmc curve :smirk:. But if it's just personal preference/fun, alright.

If it hasn't been mentioned already, Kari Zev's monkey token is legendary so won't benefit from Anointed Procession. Still good for triggering Valor however.

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:09 pm 
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Kel'Thuzad wrote:
I think she makes all kinds of sense but people love to shrug off my advice :roll::V. I don't know that you necessarily have to cast her on turn 4.. I think there'd be occasions where I'd be happier to cast the smaller Chandra even if I had 6 mana (4 direct damage instead of a sweep, or extra draw/mana, and an ultimate that's actually a wincon).
She has the same colour demand as big Chandra, so I'm not sure how that's an issue. Chuck in a couple of Aether Hubs, problem solved.
Think of the lovely 1-2 extra spells you could include by cutting lands with a 4cmc curve :smirk:. But if it's just personal preference/fun, alright.

If it hasn't been mentioned already, Kari Zev's monkey token is legendary so won't benefit from Anointed Procession. Still good for triggering Valor however.


Please don't get me wrong, I do think she makes sense. I just have more fun w/ Big Chandra. Little Chandra helps in lots of ways. I am actually thinking of adding her and 3 Inciters in place of Pia and Collective to test out. You made great points that I agree with. I just don't want to get rid of big Chandra for those great moments when she can send an army at my opponent. It is one of my few non spikey decisions.

As far as mana, I really race to 4 now, and anything after is mostly gravy. Hubs I tend to only use if I can use the energy or colorless like for TK. I won't completely rule them out, but they are more of a last resort for me generally if they are only mana fixing. I actually have thought of cutting the man lands just because it can disrupt tempo, that is how picky I have been on mana sources.

On the monkey Token, completely correct. It is mainly their for Valor as you surmised. Anointed can be slightly helpful with the tokens if you have priests out (I think, I know it has happened, and pretty sure it triggers off both monkeys)

I will probably run with those changes tonight and see how they go. Thank you for the feedback.

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:03 pm 
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Has Oketra done any good work? Expensive token generator that may or may not be able to swing in depending on how much instant speed your opponent has. I'm thinking...
-1 Oketra
+1 regal caracal You are already playing 4x Sacred Cat, 3 bodies for 5 cmc is what this deck is about.

I too have been working on a token deck but it's trying to key in on using anointed procession, real grindy. I just love that card.

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:59 pm 
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I went ahead and rebuilt my own attempt at a valor deck and oddly enough, didn't get valor out a single game (playing all 3 copies). Well, I did but I had already won by then and I didn't even get to pump my guys.
Conclusions: valor is actually the weakest, least relevant card in the deck even though I tried to build around it.
All this to say that Insult is probably just as Explosive, easier to cast and can have other uses aswell.

Trial of Valor

Creature(25)
1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 x Bloodlust Inciter
2 x Selfless Spirit
2 x Thalia's Lieutenant
2 x Glory-Bound Initiate
2 x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4 x Aether Chaser
3 x Honored Crop-Champion
2 x Thopter Engineer
2 x Hanweir Garrison
1 x Angel of Invention

Instant(3)
3 x Harnessed Lightning

Sorcery(2)
2 x Sram's Expertise

Enchantment(4)
3 x Valor in Akros
1 x Angelic Destiny

Planeswalker(2)
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Nahiri, the Harbinger

Artifact(2)
2 x Aethersphere Harvester

Land(22)
7 x Plains
2 x Needle Spires
7 x Mountain
2 x Stone Quarry
2 x Clifftop Retreat
2 x Hanweir Battlements


To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 7b538e86f6

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

Firstly, even though the deck won much more often than not and quite a few times by T5, it probably needs an extra Land or 2 because the losses were mostly to mana screw.
Then, the valors should probably be always Watching and/or Insult // Injury.
The lifegain theme helped me more than once to turn games around when opponent gets a faster start (especially when your on the draw).
Inciters are awesome and I keep wishing I'd draw them to make my bigger creatures even more deadly. I may even throw in Gisela, because she rocks with haste.
Angelic Destiny just wins too many games to not be in the deck...
Didn't get to play the expertise either, only drew it in the games I was mana-screwed.

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:39 pm 
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Sleep, Oketra has been decent. One of the better cards to break a stall. Not great, but rarely disappointed to have it.

I have thought of the Big Cat Lady, but have not tried it yet. (Honestly, wouldn't Crazy Cat Lady be a better name for the card?)

Haven, yours is definitely better and more resilient. I was going just for big, fun numbers. It is amazing how many times the Valor/Sram/Engineer comes up. Maybe 5%-10% of the time? Rarer is the Procession lifegain with a few priests out, but still big numbers, especially if you get both Processions out.

With that said, I think I am kinda burned out on the deck. I started trying to make it competitive instead of fun....and that was not the point at all. It is all about the one turn where you turn a loss into a stunning victory (or gain enough life to put it out of reach.)

How have the Chasers been btw? I keep putting them in the deck in the deck builder, but take them back out before finalizing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Chasers have been good, except when lilly shows up, problem is I make the token and blow the energy long before I can get valor out... Human synergy is nice and they're great with the harvesters.
Probably why I think Insult would be just as good or even better than valor...

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:25 pm 
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I run a Naya list with anointed procession, flameshadow conjuring, and might of masses plus the red dragon that copies spells. Anointed also creates double clues from tireless tracker and then I sac flameshadow tokens with the 2 mana green enchant I don't run valor though sorry on my phone atm

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 Post subject: Re: Popcorn
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:18 am 
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Insult does seem like it would do well. Valor has won me too many games though, so not sure I want to swap that out.

Latest version I took out Processions and added the While Trial and Cartouches. You can have a mini combo with Engineer, Sram's Expertise and the Trial. If Engineer is out, you will send 12 points at least their way from seemingly nothing.

The deck is probably 55%-60% on wins so far, but the way you win is so much fun that I am okay that it is not that spikey.

Quickest kill so far has been T4, but have only seen once. Vs a Mardu that was racing me on damage. T1 Cat. T2 Kari Zev (1 pt). T3 Garrison (1+4=5) T4 Valor (5 + 26 = 31). It is rare to have Garrison live to attack though.

Speaking of garrison, the Trials and Cartouche can help it survive when attacking to make more tokens, which adds some value, even if the trial does not help the tokens.

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