601! Now that i have stolen your fun we need a real argument.

Ok I'll go with an easy soft subject to start...Are American cops now legally free to shoot African Americans just because?

Is the UK Government allowed to burn poor people alive in tall buildings just because?

No, they didn't do that tho. Who started the fire? Bad building codes will never be able to be seen as criminal negligence

Money is more important than people in a Capitalist economic system. If improving the conditions of the building would have lead to more rent being paid then it absolutely would have been done.

https://www.theguardian.com/public-lead ... le-tragedy

let me rephrase that then. Are they allowed to construct increasingly elaborate death traps in the hope that a slight breeze will thin the population?

Not explicitly no. Implicitly, yes. Absolutely.

I'm just talking from a legal standpoint, not a moral one.

The fridge started the fire (yes, the irony of that).

It's becoming clear too that many similar buildings have similar insulation that, guess what? Is highly flammable - I mean wtf.

Talk about building codes and regulations, they are still trying to work out quite how such materials could have been passed through building regulations.

You really could not make this stuff up!

It's pretty easy to work out, actually. Profit is more important than people. There's really nothing more to it.

You probably have that right my friend, sad but true. I don't know if you ever read Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons Watchmen. (Seeing the film doesn't count). In it Doc Manhattan when exiled himself to Mars realises the profoundity of a single human life. But the cold stark reality is life is cheap.

Also if you are looking for a real debate how about there are too many humans on the planet anyway. The whole Dan Brown Inferno or better yet check out the British TV show Utopia (2013 - 2014) both seasons. Similar theme.

That's not entirely true. It all depend on how many people we're talking about. Indiviuals? Yeah sure, profit wins out. Angry mob on your doorstep? You'll soon forget about an easy buck when they're about to burn your house down.

Look at what happened to that asian-american doctor who got dragged off an airplane... Airplane company soon started caring when their shares started dropping from all the hate...

Its all a question of critical mass...

You refuted my point but you actually strengthened it. The "airplane company" started caring about people because its shares tanked. Profit was the sole motivation for the "caring".

That's because people have money.
Lots of people have... Lots of money.

Loosing 1 client is peanuts. Loosing thousands is bankrupcy...
People matter in quantity.

People only matter in quantity if they can wield a weapon be it bombs, sticks, money.... Beyond that, the masses are only a force to be sedated and controlled either to use their labor or their death for your benefit.

B3 and Squider, keep us posted on political response to this regulation problem. I imagine some tightening of building code regulations will get proposed and I'm anxious to see who is against it and why. Hakeem's theory will come into play there and I'm curious how blatant it will be. It's right in your face in the States but no one cares, I'm curious if the UK is the same. Because there is less money in politics there, I'm thinking it will pass more freely

Barney, do you actually think passing legislation matters? Capitalism lives by a single rule.

Until it becomes profitable, it won't be done.

Man, I didn't realize it until Hakeem's posts but I guess I kind of hate capitalism. I always thought it was just greediness that irked me. I value a lot of things over money, even people I have never met.

Capitalism is a tricky one to be sure. I'd agree that the money and greed can win out but also take entrepreneurs for example, surely creating a business that gives the opportunity for employment is a good thing for society. If capitalism in practice was not driving this what would. Yes history has always been based with those with power and money, historically backed by armies. If not that it has been religion running and deciding things.

I'd agree with Hakeem's point that the money making pursuit is a large part of it and can be fundamentally wrong when people's lives are at risk but also can accept that capitalism has provided a basis for employment and therefore a means for people to get on, succeed and build successful lives for themselves and their families.

Unless you want to call that by a different name I am not sure how else to badge it but yes it can have a very negative side where money is the main pursuit. After all for anyone that live a typical life a lack of money can of course cause real hardship but on the reverse side once you have enough for a comfortable life I think money past that point can't really buy happiness though of course those with too much money do like to try.

You have to be run by a balanced centrist as a nation in our modern era to succeed long term. Too far left and you lose investment, financial clout and sovereignty. Too far right and you damage the foundations of your society through wealth transfer to the top and trickle down economics. We currently have it too far right in the UK (and IMO the USA as well) where the workers hold no power, where the majority of their place is dictated to them by those with it. The problem with being too far left is that unions can be corruptible (see UK 1970s), but that's fixed by passing laws that limit their powers as can be seen today. The problem with being too far right is having your wages in the hands of those who will keep them as low as they can in order to maximize profit, however I'm not sure what can be done legislation wise to correct this direction. If you raise minimum wage, they will cut jobs. If you raise their corporation tax, they will move their money elsewhere. That's why we're currently stuck in the paradox of making life better for the top 1% in order to hope their benefit results in money dropping down to the workers when there is NO guarantee or incentive to do so outside of rapid expansion or public image.

The left/right dichotomy is fundamentally capitalist, though. You need to get off that spectrum entirely if you want things to change.