It is currently Sun Dec 01, 2024 2:13 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:30 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 2979
Yeah, getting an entirely new draft format every three months will be neat. Hopefully the core set drafting isn't too boring. It'd be awkward if stores had to be like, "Well no one wants to draft the core set, so I guess we'll draft the spring set for 6 months instead?"

Actually, now I'm curious about Pro Tours. MaRo himself said that core set drafting won't hold experienced players' attention for as long as other sets. Will they draft the core set at the pro tour anyway? I can't think of a great alternative other than removing the limited portion from that Pro Tour altogether. Maybe we'll find out with the organized play announcements on Thursday.


I expect the plan will be to have the summers be for both the core sets to keep the newbies newbieing, and the nonstandard Masters / Conspiracy sets for the enfranchised to have to draft something spicy for at least a large part of the summer after they burn out on the core.

Could Pro Tour's limited leg be done on a Masters-series product?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:38 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 14004
Identity: Chaoslight
Preferred Pronoun Set: She
Edacade wrote:
I mean, at this point "We'll never do X again" is really just WotC code for "We'll return to doing X again when we've figured out how to do it right."

Which means Tribal will eventually return. :D


Yes, as a super type hopefully.

_________________
altimis wrote:
I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
WotC_Ethan wrote:
People, buy more stuff.
#WotCstaff
Spoiler

Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:04 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 10, 2015
Posts: 3569
Location: California
Identity: Male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/his/his/himself
If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Ixtalan having 3 sets (MaRo does not say this in his article, but it seems like one motivating factor toward what they're doing).

I think there was three sets' worth of things to be said on Kaladesh. By contrast, this may open MtG up for more sets like Coldsnap and Origins.

It also occurs to me that the next core set will come out to celebrate Magic's silver anniversary.

_________________
Is it just me, or does Bruse Tarl look like an 1890s Barnum circus strongman who'd hawk strength tonic patent medicines on the side?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:07 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 10, 2015
Posts: 3569
Location: California
Identity: Male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/his/his/himself
Yeah, getting an entirely new draft format every three months will be neat. Hopefully the core set drafting isn't too boring. It'd be awkward if stores had to be like, "Well no one wants to draft the core set, so I guess we'll draft the spring set for 6 months instead?"

Actually, now I'm curious about Pro Tours. MaRo himself said that core set drafting won't hold experienced players' attention for as long as other sets. Will they draft the core set at the pro tour anyway? I can't think of a great alternative other than removing the limited portion from that Pro Tour altogether. Maybe we'll find out with the organized play announcements on Thursday.


I expect the plan will be to have the summers be for both the core sets to keep the newbies newbieing, and the nonstandard Masters / Conspiracy sets for the enfranchised to have to draft something spicy for at least a large part of the summer after they burn out on the core.

Could Pro Tour's limited leg be done on a Masters-series product?


You could, say, draft a mix of 2/3 Core Set and 1/3 Spring set

_________________
Is it just me, or does Bruse Tarl look like an 1890s Barnum circus strongman who'd hawk strength tonic patent medicines on the side?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:22 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 10, 2015
Posts: 3569
Location: California
Identity: Male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/his/his/himself
Zenbitz wrote:
Quote:
What if we stopped doing small sets?

They must have had a rough (or perhaps "below growth expectations") couple years financially to yo-yo this so much.

I think they've been having a serious problem attracting fresh meat for several years now. That would also explain the power creep at uncommon.

_________________
Is it just me, or does Bruse Tarl look like an 1890s Barnum circus strongman who'd hawk strength tonic patent medicines on the side?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:37 am 
Offline
Conqueror of Eldangard
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 14140
Location: Kamloops, BC
Identity: Male
Overall I think the announcement is good news. I do hope they'll continue to evolve mechanics through subsequent blocks though. Otherwise-too-complicated and often very cool stuff can be accomplished by leaning on what players learned last block.
What I'm really hoping for is a full year of Dominaria blocks. None of this "people will be upset if we don't return to [specific dominarian locale] malarkey. We'll have time to hit all the big ones with a unique identity for each!

Yeah, getting an entirely new draft format every three months will be neat. Hopefully the core set drafting isn't too boring. It'd be awkward if stores had to be like, "Well no one wants to draft the core set, so I guess we'll draft the spring set for 6 months instead?"

Actually, now I'm curious about Pro Tours. MaRo himself said that core set drafting won't hold experienced players' attention for as long as other sets. Will they draft the core set at the pro tour anyway? I can't think of a great alternative other than removing the limited portion from that Pro Tour altogether. Maybe we'll find out with the organized play announcements on Thursday.

If the core sets come out around the same time as the summer masters/conspiracy/whatever then there's an easy fix. Or WOTC could mix it up by rotating which of the year's sets they draft every tournament (or going with the most popular). Heck, they could really mix it up and have people draft Kamigawa. I bet there are still a ton of Alara Reborn and Dragon's Maze boosters in a warehouse somewhere.

fake edit - thatmarkguy beat me to it.

Zenbitz wrote:
Quote:
What if we stopped doing small sets?

They must have had a rough (or perhaps "below growth expectations") couple years financially to yo-yo this so much.

I think they've been having a serious problem attracting fresh meat for several years now. That would also explain the power creep at uncommon.

Have they? I know sales are up, but I never looked into the breakdown. Certainly Duels getting stale has been a hindrance to noob-gathering. The Duels franchise needs a reboot.

_________________
Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:55 am 
Offline
YMtC Champ '11
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
YMtC Idol Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 10665
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/my/mine/himself
If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Ixtalan having 3 sets (MaRo does not say this in his article, but it seems like one motivating factor toward what they're doing).

It would sound more logical to me that they are doing it because Ixalan can't support two sets, in that case.
I'm actually doubtful they would commit to 3 large sets on any new plane.

_________________
[Warchief] Custom EDH Project
you're like the kind of person who would cast Necropotence irl


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:00 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 07, 2015
Posts: 312
Even if they're separate big sets with their own mechanics and draft environment, staying on the same world too long would still get stale.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:31 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 10, 2015
Posts: 3569
Location: California
Identity: Male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/his/his/himself
adeyke wrote:
Even if they're separate big sets with their own mechanics and draft environment, staying on the same world too long would still get stale.

COUGHWeatherlightSagaCOUGH

We spent a whole decade on Dominaria. We even spent two years in Otaria.

_________________
Is it just me, or does Bruse Tarl look like an 1890s Barnum circus strongman who'd hawk strength tonic patent medicines on the side?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:54 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 10, 2015
Posts: 3569
Location: California
Identity: Male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/his/his/himself
Mown wrote:
If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Ixtalan having 3 sets (MaRo does not say this in his article, but it seems like one motivating factor toward what they're doing).

It would sound more logical to me that they are doing it because Ixalan can't support two sets, in that case.
I'm actually doubtful they would commit to 3 large sets on any new plane.

I would seriously doubt that. I think MaRo's column yesterday makes it clear Ixalan is going for at least two sets.
So, that means at least one or more of the following:

a) Ixalan goes for a third set
b) The spring 2018 set is a one-off
c) The spring and fall 2018 sets will be set on the same plane
d) The spring and summer/core 2018 sets will be set on the same plane (He didn't close the door on the Core Set all being set on one plane)

_________________
Is it just me, or does Bruse Tarl look like an 1890s Barnum circus strongman who'd hawk strength tonic patent medicines on the side?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:13 am 
Offline
YMtC Champ '11
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
YMtC Idol Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 10665
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/my/mine/himself
Well, yes, Ixalan isn't going to be only one set, since Eggs is in the same block. However, Eggs is also a small set, which means that it was developed before this change. I'm saying that it's more likely that they believe Ixalan wouldn't need two sets, as opposed to it needing three. If they were going to commit to a three-set block, then presumably, Eggs would also be a large set, instead of them only implementing their new changes halfway.

And I doubt they are going to make a 3-set plane on Ixilan because wotc seem like a company that would want to be sure that the plane is a hit with players first, and because I don't think it's all that important to the story, coming right after the "Visit Bolas" plane (or parallel to? I heard rumors about Ajani).

_________________
[Warchief] Custom EDH Project
you're like the kind of person who would cast Necropotence irl


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:59 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 07, 2015
Posts: 312
The ability to visit more worlds per year and to the quicker storytelling were both listed as benefits of the move from 3-set blocks to 2-set blocks. Going back to 3 sets per world would undo those benefits.

I really don't see the Weatherlight Saga as a good example of keeping things fresh. People complain about the Gatewatch, but the Weatherlight crew was much worse. I was playing at the time and got very tired of seeing them everywhere. So in terms of storytelling, that got very stale. It didn't all take place on the same plane, though.

As for Dominaria, it's very different from how they now make planes. By using different time periods and different continents, they could have all sorts of different settings all within one plane. These days, they just make a new plane for a new setting, so each individual planes is much more homogeneous. This makes them more distinct from each other, but it also makes it harder to keep them interesting over multiple sets.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:52 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 30, 2013
Posts: 8960
Location: Brazil
Not a big fan of these changes, but I've been using a "wait and see" mentality to look at whatever WotC tries in the past few years. Let's see what they can do. I'll miss small Sets, though.

_________________
Yes, I'm from Brazil and no, I'm not an annoying ****.

RPG characters


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:29 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec 02, 2013
Posts: 562
I just realized that this means that eventually my very slowly growing "one deck per block" collection can eventually be complete. Woohoo?

_________________
L1 judge


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:44 pm 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 14370
Wahooney wrote:
I just realized that this means that eventually my very slowly growing "one deck per block" collection can eventually be complete. Woohoo?

But at the same time it complicates "Build your own Standard". I feel like now you have to have some stupid arcane rule like "Large expansions are worth 1.5, small expansions and core sets are worth 1, you get a total value of 8, buy your Standard" which loses the former elegance of the exercise.

Then again, things were already a mess as of two set blocks.

_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook!
The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure.
Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:21 pm 
Offline
YMtC Champ '08

Joined: Dec 24, 2013
Posts: 1540
At the time of the first Metamorphosis article I commented that my problem wasn't even with the third set, it was with the second set. Third sets often made an effort to differentiate themselves; second sets often just felt like more of the same. I guess they eventually came to agree with this.

So while I am not against this change, and it has a lot of positive points (very specific planes like Ravnica don't need acrobatics to work in block planning, for example) I just wonder if it will make them burn design space faster than usual, since every set now will have to basically do what a whole block did. Blocks were great for conserving design space while slowly building new things in a given structure, I just guess they felt that wasn't worth sacrificing the need for novelty.

As for Core Sets -- I just wish they were an yearly box set in the style of FFG's card games. Just put five preconstructed decks inside, some boosters for the previous expansion set, some extra fluff as necessary reprints, and call it a day. I just don't see why Core Sets need to be booster products (which is not the same as saying they shouldn't contain booster packs, mind you).


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:10 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 7801
For those wondering:

Quote:
the-machine-orthodoxy asked:
Does the change to 3 and 1 with the loss of blocks mean that mechanics used in a plane will see less exploration and design?

markrosewater said:
Two things:

1) We might extend mechanics over two blocks if they occur on the same plane.

2) We are very willing to bring back old mechanics and explore them.

_________________
magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:08 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 09, 2013
Posts: 7454
Location: Mountain View
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
Looks like they're going back to the old "one year in advance" core set naming scheme: http://magic.wizards.com/en/products/core-2019

I'm a little confused that it's "Core 2019" but the set code is still M19. I wonder if they'll have a new set symbol to differentiate Core 20XX from Magic 20XX.

_________________
if someone said this about me i'd make it my signature


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:22 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 05, 2014
Posts: 1347
Location: Berk
Identity: Dragon
Looks like they're going back to the old "one year in advance" core set naming scheme: http://magic.wizards.com/en/products/core-2019

I'm a little confused that it's "Core 2019" but the set code is still M19. I wonder if they'll have a new set symbol to differentiate Core 20XX from Magic 20XX.
The whole naming one year in advance is a marketing thing. The set will be in production and on sale both the year it comes out and the next year. The issue is that they don't want to be selling a "current" product with last year's number on it. They do the same thing with car model years.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:30 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 12, 2015
Posts: 691
Maro's also said its an issue with mainstream retailers (Target/Wall-Mart and such). Apparently the distributors who organize and stock those displays won't order or restock dated products if the date isn't current.

_________________


"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins."

"Remember, dear friends: when we announce something and you imagine it, the odds that we made exactly that thing are zero."---Kelly Digges


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group