It is currently Sun Dec 01, 2024 5:40 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:20 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 7801
today kicks off announcement week. MaRo just put up an article today that goes over the goods and bads of the 2-set model and then talks about how Wizards plans on abolishing it all together in favor of three large blocks and a Core-set-like block for summer.

Quote:
Making Magic is an iterative process. We create something, we playtest it, we get feedback on it, and then we use that feedback to either make more new things or to adapt the things we already made. This iterative loop is not only applied to individual sets but also to the game as a whole. Three years ago, I wrote an article titled "Metamorphosis" where I explained a big change the game was going through. Seeing that this column is entitled "Metamorphosis 2.0," perhaps you have some idea where I'm going with this.

The change over to the Two-Block Model (two blocks per year, each with a large set and a small set) had some successes and created some challenges. Today's column is going to examine what we learned and then discuss what we've done to create the next iterative loop.

As I said in "Metamorphosis," I'm going to discuss times of the year when sets get released and the dates shifting from year to year make months inaccurate, so I'm going to use seasons as they apply in the Northern Hemisphere. For any readers from the Southern Hemisphere, I kindly ask that you mentally swap in the proper season accordingly.

.......

PROBLEM SOLVING 2.0
Players liked having more change. Players liked having more large sets. Players weren't enjoying the small sets as much as the large sets. This seemed to have a straightforward but bold answer. What if we stopped doing small sets?

Four large sets a year though would be too much—both in number of new cards and in the amount of work we would need to do to produce them. Okay, what if we did three large sets a year? That would work except it would leave a hole in the schedule in the summer. Was there something we could fill it with? How about the product we were sad went away? What if we filled the slot with a core set?

Not exactly a core set, as there were still some problems with core sets to solve, but how about a new product that was similar to a core set? That got us to the right number of cards and, if constructed correctly, could solve a few other outstanding problems.

The next problem was what would three large sets mean for the creative team. Would each be its own separate world? We have the team in place to design two worlds a year; was three a possibility? And did it even want to be three different worlds? Weren't there some worlds that we wanted to spend more than one set on?

We hashed through all of this and arrived with a brand-new model, what I've been calling the Three-and-One Model.

THE THREE-AND-ONE MODEL
Before I begin explaining the new model, I want to stress that this new system begins with "Soup" in the spring of 2018. Both Amonkhet and Ixalan blocks will follow the current model complete with a large and a small set. The reason I'm writing this now is that later this week we're going to be introducing sets that fall under this new system. (Yes, "Soup" will very shortly get a real name.)

_________________
magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:40 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 09, 2013
Posts: 7454
Location: Mountain View
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
A summary of the new structure:
  • 3 large sets per year, plus 1 core set.
  • No more small sets.
  • Core sets will be even more focused on new players.
  • Masterpieces will appear in fewer sets.
  • The Gatewatch will appear less often.
  • Large sets may have small mechanical overlap, but will mostly be mechanically distinct.
  • We'll stay on a plane for as many sets as it makes sense for the story. We could leave after one set or stay for two or three.
  • Changes begin after Eggs (the small set after Ixalan).

Image

_________________
if someone said this about me i'd make it my signature


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:08 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8338
Location: Singapore
I like the changes. Funnily enough, other CCGs have been doing the all-large-set thing long before Magic.

_________________
Image
The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:34 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 28, 2016
Posts: 3552
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/his/his/himself
+core sets are back !
+story no longer dictated by schedule
+no more mechanics appearing on like 6 cards like Provoke or Battlecry
+more big sets -> more cards -> more decks and deck options -> more diverse meta
+less Gatewatch means less boring character stuff and (finally, finally) maybe global, non character-orientated plots truly fitting for a game like MTG

_________________
nice quotes from this forum

War of the spark will have so many Planeswalkers, they won't even be planeswalking anymore.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:41 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 7260
Quote:
What if we stopped doing small sets?


Yeah, I was wondering when they were going to realize this. Actually, what I really wondered was WHY they did small sets ever? My only conclusion is that they must be cheaper to develop. (Few cards = less dev time, less art time, cheaper print costs). And that seems to coincide with them going from 2/2 to 3/1. Assuming they can crank our core sets cheaply.

What was the last "good" small set, or mixed small/large draft format? I think even RTR-block was better just as pure RTR or pure GTC. Dragon's Maze (probably the first set where I was seriously starting to draft was BAaaad).

They must have had a rough (or perhaps "below growth expectations") couple years financially to yo-yo this so much.

I think core sets are good not just for new players, but as a way to reprint cards outside of story theme. Also they can print common/uncommon constructed staples that don't fit in a particular draft format.

_________________
"Everything looks good when your opponent passes 4 turns in a row" -- rstnme
"Something that does not look good when your opponent does nothing is not a thing" -- me


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:49 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 7260
The last irony is that I had high hopes for Hour of Devastation rescuing the Amonkhet draft format. Although probably I am just getting jaded.

_________________
"Everything looks good when your opponent passes 4 turns in a row" -- rstnme
"Something that does not look good when your opponent does nothing is not a thing" -- me


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:39 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 14004
Identity: Chaoslight
Preferred Pronoun Set: She
Small sets made sense when they had a 3 set block structure. First set introduces story and mechanics, second set explores them and third finishes the story and fulfill the players final expectations like combining multiple keywords on a card or printing things in colors they didnt yet, or printing a character on flavor text.

_________________
altimis wrote:
I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
WotC_Ethan wrote:
People, buy more stuff.
#WotCstaff
Spoiler

Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:56 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 27, 2013
Posts: 3389
I like the idea but I am a little worried people would end up feeling disappointed if they stuck to the same plane for multiple sets. Like two is fine but maybe three is a little much. I can't imagine they would go to three except under very unusual circumstances.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:02 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 7801
I don't see them hitting three sets on the same plane unless we go somewhere that can support it, like Ravnica or Dominaria.

_________________
magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:04 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 01, 2017
Posts: 429
Identity: male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he
Zenbitz wrote:
The last irony is that I had high hopes for Hour of Devastation rescuing the Amonkhet draft format. Although probably I am just getting jaded.


Try sealed. It's ever so much better, since you can realistically build a deck to win with, say, Cruel Reality. I used to draft a lot, but in this set, it's been seled leagues all the way. The gameplay is just so good and varied. I mean, Enigma Drake is a legit threat.

_________________
Yours in calendrical heresy, UA


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:06 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 01, 2017
Posts: 429
Identity: male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he
And for the article, it did not disappoint. In particular, it made me realize that yes, I'm not the only one who loves drafting triple big set (present set excluded), and is a bit underwhelmed by the small-small-big draft formats.

_________________
Yours in calendrical heresy, UA


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:09 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec 02, 2013
Posts: 562
I guess this makes it easier to return to popular themes which aren't deep enough for a full, even two-set block. Return to Alara in 2018, I'm guessing.

_________________
L1 judge


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:18 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 12, 2015
Posts: 691
Wahooney wrote:
I guess this makes it easier to return to popular themes which aren't deep enough for a full, even two-set block. Return to Alara in 2018, I'm guessing.
Nah, the big return in 2018 is definitely going to be Dominaria.

_________________


"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins."

"Remember, dear friends: when we announce something and you imagine it, the odds that we made exactly that thing are zero."---Kelly Digges


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:19 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec 02, 2013
Posts: 562
2019 then, whatever.

_________________
L1 judge


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:24 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 09, 2013
Posts: 7454
Location: Mountain View
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
The first set under this model was probably planned as a two-set block initially, so it'll be interesting to hear about how that changed things.

I wonder what the core set names will be. If they go back to the old model, we'll get Magic 2019 next summer, but maybe they'll ditch the weird "one year ahead" thing and do Magic 2018 instead. Or maybe they'll pick a new naming scheme so we don't have a weird gap where M16 and M17 should be.

_________________
if someone said this about me i'd make it my signature


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:23 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 2979
Yeah, I've been wishing the death of small sets for a while.

Ideally, a draft format should be 2-large-1-small. The large set is the foundation for a block and all the core cards of its draft environment should be there. When you're drafting a block, the majority of cards should come from the foundation, and then get tweaked by the expansion.

However, after 3 months drafting a big set and then a new set comes out, players already own all the cards they want from the main set and they're thirsty to play with and own cards from the new set. So when they were drafting 1-newsmall-2-oldlarge draft interest was low because people didn't want to pay for three packs and only get one of the new set. So they deferred to the wonky "2 newsmall, 1 oldlarge" way to appease players who wanted more of the new cards, but the result is that the small new set dominates the block draft environment and the fundamental core becomes an afterthought.

The best way to draft Amonkhet-block should be AKH-AKH-HOU. But card ownership and variety make people demand the tweaks that get them more new cards and the draft format suffers.

Good riddance, I say.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:53 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 09, 2013
Posts: 7454
Location: Mountain View
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
Yeah, getting an entirely new draft format every three months will be neat. Hopefully the core set drafting isn't too boring. It'd be awkward if stores had to be like, "Well no one wants to draft the core set, so I guess we'll draft the spring set for 6 months instead?"

Actually, now I'm curious about Pro Tours. MaRo himself said that core set drafting won't hold experienced players' attention for as long as other sets. Will they draft the core set at the pro tour anyway? I can't think of a great alternative other than removing the limited portion from that Pro Tour altogether. Maybe we'll find out with the organized play announcements on Thursday.

_________________
if someone said this about me i'd make it my signature


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:21 pm 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 14370
I loved the old block format. The one we see in Tempest, (Not so much but still kinda Urza's), Masques, Invasion, Odyssey, and Onslaught, as well as some later sets like Time Spiral and Scars. The large set would introduce a theme and mechanics, and then the small sets would evolve the dominant themes while adding twists that gave them their own identity. There's a definite progress in how the Rath Cycle uses its assets, with Buyback morphing gradually until you finally got nonmana executions in Exodus. All the while Slivers, Spikes, and Shadow rose, fell, and morphed to get a picture that FELT complete by the end of the third act. At the same time, sets also had identity: Stronghold had a strong "walls" theme and "Discard a card" costs were everywhere in Exodus. In Masques the rebels and mercenaries were very formulaic, but they shifted a little out of their roles for Nemesis (Which also had its own gimmick, Fading) and fully busted free with things like Rebel Informer in Prophecy (personal Gimmick: Rhystic).

As much I hate Onslaught, even it had a decent progression of "Tribal" -- Legion was an "Extreme" gimmick (being the All-creature set) but Scourge was, at least mechanically, a good capstone to what they had been building. Mirrodin 1.0 though was the first time the theme never really evolved. It did artifacts and... yeah the second set had Indestructible and the third set did Sunburst, but they didn't have much to do with each other and didn't really have the feeling of progression that most blocks up until then did. Time Spiral, I think, is probably the block that really knocked out of the park what was great about the old three-set block format: It had a solid identity for each set, unified by a natural progression through a common theme, and during which the mechanics that would be used throughout were used in new ways in each set. The last time I feel it was really nailed was Scars of Mirrodin, in which the growth of the Phyrexian faction provided direction to the block.

I will mourn the passing of blocks, but in a way they'd been dead or dying since Lorwyn/Shadowmoor lost a lot of what had been good about them. When two-set blocks set in, we already weren't getting evolution, but rather a setup-and-swerve, and while sometimes the ability to have a lead in rather than just skipping to the payoff was used well (SoI, for all its flaws. Probably Amonkhet, really, but we'll see how that goes) other times it feels like you could have started with the second set shift and just been self-contained. How cool would it have been to get one big set where the Eldrazi are back and now they aren't just all colorless, they actually require you to generate colorless mana rather than generic. Kaladesh was... well, I didn't much care for it or its story, but it easily could have been compressed to make the story of Aether Revolt the crux of the whole thing, there didn't really feel like there had to be a second set to move the timeline forward all those... days I think?... that it moved forward.

So, I'm cautiously optimistic about the change. I feel like they can do things without blocks that they couldn't do with it. And I really like that the Gatewatch is going to get de-emphasized, pretty hard by the sound of it. But at the same time, the key word is cautious. I'm actually kind of scared for magic in a way I've never been before, not because of this change and what this change entails, but because meta-structure has changed repeatedly in a rather short time. It feels kind of like Wizards of the Coast is flailing, and that does not instill me with joy nor confidence.

_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook!
The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure.
Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:33 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 14004
Identity: Chaoslight
Preferred Pronoun Set: She
Well remember when they said no more core sets ever? Yeah dont count small sets out yet.

_________________
altimis wrote:
I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
WotC_Ethan wrote:
People, buy more stuff.
#WotCstaff
Spoiler

Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:50 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 04, 2015
Posts: 4649
Location: Alchemist's Refuge
Identity: Male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/his/his/himself
I mean, at this point "We'll never do X again" is really just WotC code for "We'll return to doing X again when we've figured out how to do it right."

Which means Tribal will eventually return. :D

_________________
Former Rules Advisor (RA program ended 5-3-16)

Up High, Down Low, Whoops, Too Slow.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group