Joined: Nov 10, 2013 Posts: 17748 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
As a red mage, I'm really excited to try Throne for the first time. That card is all math and clock. I'm really looking forward to trying to abuse it with some of your decks, boys.
Cardboard, lol @ "thanks?". I'm excited to try your deck cuz I'm a madness nut. I'm surprised you're not playing more madness cards with so many discard outlets. I'm amazed you're not playing Grif's something (that thing that makes two zombies that has a madness alt cost). It's almost like your deck is desperate to void the hand to activate Orrery, but then you have Siphoner which fights that. Anyway, can't wait. With Copter, I should be turning as many things sideways as possible to abuse the Thrones I'm guessing? I like how Throne gets value out of Wanderer and Haunted Dead coming into play tapped, and how Copter can turn any summoning sickness into a pilot that Throne likes too.
DJ, I'll sacrifice what I please!!! :")
honestly though, Fleshbag is my 6th favourite sac target. Before sac'ing a fleshy, i would sac:
To stay on topic with zombies, but out of this contest, my monoblack zombies deck is doing very well in steam koth. Won 3 games in a row till now against 3 very good players (hawk, fuss, gem) and 3 different archetypes (simic ramp, bant tempo, monored aggro). viewtopic.php?f=38&t=16078&start=240
To stay on topic with zombies, but out of this contest, my monoblack zombies deck is doing very well in steam koth. Won 3 games in a row till now against 3 very good players (hawk, fuss, gem) and 3 different archetypes (simic ramp, bant tempo, monored aggro). viewtopic.php?f=38&t=16078&start=240
I took that deck for a spin it performed greatly... now I'm making it my own, I think I'm onto something pretty good
Slightly off topic: I just cast Ever After returning Archfiend of Ifnir and Horror of the Broken Lands to the battlefield with the added zombie type. I had a Wayward Servant in play and was expecting it to trigger for each of them, but it didn't. Is that a bug, or does the zombie type get tacked on them after they etb?
Edit: I just tried it with Rise from the Grave and it worked, but when I tried Ever After again (in the same game) it didn't. Pretty sure its a bug.
Last edited by TheFlakyMage on Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cardboard, lol @ "thanks?". I'm excited to try your deck cuz I'm a madness nut. I'm surprised you're not playing more madness cards with so many discard outlets. I'm amazed you're not playing Grif's something (that thing that makes two zombies that has a madness alt cost). It's almost like your deck is desperate to void the hand to activate Orrery, but then you have Siphoner which fights that. Anyway, can't wait. With Copter, I should be turning as many things sideways as possible to abuse the Thrones I'm guessing? I like how Throne gets value out of Wanderer and Haunted Dead coming into play tapped, and how Copter can turn any summoning sickness into a pilot that Throne likes too.
Yeah, I love Gisa's Bidding but it's too expensive for this one; I don't have enough free discard to reliably drop it T3 where it really kills. I run it in a mono black aggro with a similar churn engine, but there I have Copter + Heir of Falkenrath to get it early, and I think if I swapped in Heir for, say Miasmic Mummy here, I'd be weakening my zombie synergies too much. If I added more Madness it'd probably just be the other two alms, but I'm out of space.
It's not so much desperate to void the hand as it is desperate to get maximum cards out of the library and then make them work for you wherever it is they end up, while rabidly attacking as much as possible. So all the 3+ cc cards except colossus can be either cast for less or discarded and work from the grave.
And yeah, tap everything you can with a Throne out, don't worry too much about blocking. Use instant tokens/haunted dead with binding mummy if you need something to not attack you.
Notes for Black Barney's Kel's Ack! Zombies! Record: 4-3 Notes: Time to Reflect over Fatal Push nudges this more into midrange territory. Strong against other midrange creatures, pretty good against aggro, seems to have a problem with control. MVP: Copter and Time to Reflect Ditch: A Dusk or two and a Belcher. Running a full suite of lord/mastery means dusk will often be a dead card, and you don't have a ton of ways to get it out of your hand. Belcher I'm not totally sold on- it's either an expensive 3/2 or a real risk for any removal to essentially knock out 2 cards, and I've been seeing a ton of control removal decks (iOS ladder, mid-30s). I'd swap in a couple Anguished Unmaking maybe.
Game logs:
Spoiler
1- wweenie (play): early festering, Cryptbreaker, Belcher eats festering to kill a glory-bound initiate, opp has a cast out for Belcher and an angelic destiny for their kytheon, but I have a time to reflect for that. Get a couple lords that meet a dusk. Get a mastery that meets a dusk. Get another Belcher that -1/-1s itself, opp gets a couple creatures out to block but I have a dark salvation for one and the Belcher swings in for the final four. 2- wr (draw): festering, copter, belcher meets a firecraft. Colossus comes in 5/5, opp threatens with kytheon, freeblade and trial of solidarity. Ready for it the second time with time to reflect for kytheon and colossus takes out freeblade. Opp disconnects, finish quick. 3- ubr removal (draw): fester/servant/colossus is a good start, but then I hit two TitI, a flamecaller and a ton of removal. Both dusk in hand are dead cards until they flip the surviving TitI, but then it's too late and flamecaller wins it. 4- uwg (draw): not sure what this was exactly, but I went copter/binding/Kalitas, then had a dark salvation for opp's Altered Ego clone of Kalitas and a time to reflect for their tracker. Easy win from there. 5- uw control (play): get them down to 8 before a planar outburst hits, then it's Gideon of the trials, counter, counter, blue god, pull from tomorrow, more counters, big Jace, disciple of the ring. I manage to stay annoying with a couple dread wanderer for a bit but I'm toast. 6- ru discard combo (play): t2 servant gets bombarded, T3 colossus sticks but T4 copter gets bombarded, things get countered, they fill their hand and gy with a million sorceries while I keep attacking, then rise from the tides for a million, I top & flip an Abbey that doesn't quite kill them but buys an extra turn, they use that extra turn for baral's expertise and then I'm dead. 7- gr energy (play): festering, lord, lord, I trade the festering then they stall at 3 land and leave the AI to chump block its way to the grave.
Joined: Nov 10, 2013 Posts: 17748 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Ugh, 4-3?! No wonder I'm not getting any votes. I also suspect the deck isn't that great.
I thought Time to Reflect could be better cuz the small dudes don't really give this deck trouble. Plus, if I'm playing Fatal Push, i want to live the wet dream of playing it T2 with a Bone Picker, omg...i can't wait for that to happen with one of the other decks.
Against control, you gotta really concentrate on recurring stuff from your yard, unless opponent is tapped out and you can cast stuff safely.
I'm surprised Time to Reflect is your MVP. It has been doing NOTHING for me. But yeah, Copter is boss.
I also have been really disappointed with Belcher as well. The deck is strongly missing Anguished, good call.
Dusk/Dawn gives the deck a ton of versatility, you just have to use it. It's very much a break-glass-if-emergency card.
How did your time to reflect deal with the kytheon with Angelic Destiny?
How did your time to reflect deal with the kytheon with Angelic Destiny?
Deliciously. He left it back for defense and I swung in with Cryptbreaker + a token or two, and he was low enough that he didn't think twice about blocking- he had the mana open for invulnerability and everything. One reason I like TtR so much is people don't seem to really consider it, at least in the iOS meta.
The control I've been seeing doesn't run many creatures (TitI and Torrential most often), so dusk mostly just hurts me, and if they don't counter dawn it's usually because they've drawn into a bunch more removal by late game. I will say I'm seeing more targeted removal than counters, so maybe Selfless Spirit could really help? I think it's just a tough match-up though.
Still just warming up everyone's decks against the AI. Real playtesting hasn't started yet
Careful how you mulligan, you should never lose to the AI unless you are grossly misjudging your hand. You are generally looking for a 2 threat hand by t3. Removal is optional, threats and the ability to play them are not. Fleshbag counts for that imo.
Notes for Elk's Yet Another Zombie Deck Record: 5-2 Notes: distinctly more favorable matchups in this set. No problem with Belcher here, 4 festering + Wanderer & Scrounger seems to be the right meal plan for them. MVP: Binding Mummy + Graf Harvest. Got this a couple times and it meant wins. You don't have a lot of ways to discard an extra harvest, but I might consider a second one anyway. Ditch: Forsaken Sanctuary for hubs or basics. 1/4 tap lands is too much for something that needs tempo the first three turns.
Game logs:
Spoiler
1- b (play): I play binding, lord that gets grasped, (opp goes to AI after not topping a third land in time), binding, Scrounger, I don't get another creature but they don't get another land. Not much of a game. 2- rbu (play): having learned nothing from my last opponent's plight, I keep a two land hand and the third doesn't show up before opp's baby lily ults. Oops. 3- gbw midrange (play): pretty good tempo hand, with festering, binding, colossus, lord, but they've got woodland Wanderer, cataclysmic & noxious gearhulk, avacyn, and I have removal for one of those. The rest kill me. 4- rw vehicles & burn (draw): pretty fast start with festering/servant/wanderer/belcher/Graf Harvest, the creatures get burned away after dealing good damage, but then I'm in a good spot with a couple Binding and the harvest, and they just have an exerted glorybringer and some uncrewed vehicles while I mop up. 5- rbu (play): festering, Cryptbreaker, token & vent start swinging under their unmanned copter. They cast haunted dead T4, which I totally wasn't expecting. I respond with mastery and keep swinging, then there's a Cathartic reunion that dumps a Scrounger and fiery temper, and I'm so curious about what they're playing that I almost want to string it out and see more of their deck. Instead I play lord and big tokens hit for the last 12. 6- bw zombie (play): finally hit the mirror! But it's anticlimactic. mulligan to six, I get two binding, two colossus and Belcher to their binding, Lord and dumb minotaur zombie. Seems like they stall at 3 land. No contest there. 7- ub discard (draw): I have a stronger board than them, especially after I Belcher a festering into their wharf infliltrator, and get a binding and harvest out together. They never get an Archfiend to save them so I win.
Joined: Nov 10, 2013 Posts: 17748 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Oh boy , round one of playtesting!! I'm done warming up all decks versus AI
Vampire Cars by Cucho is first. Up against Boros with tons of removal. I did a T2 sac of dunes against lone rider and he only did 4 drops after that. Two dark salvations in a row against juggernaut and Gisela was too much for him. 1-0
Zombie Aggro by WW is next... win vs mono white. Fatal push is huge 1-0
My crap deck next by Kel against Jund... pow!!! Huge win, biggest so far. Early trial takes out my cryptbreaker but then I curve wayward. Belcher, festering with Copter into Mastery, lol. Goodnight Gracie. 1-0
Ok that's it for tonight. Maybe more later tomorrow. This is fun
Modulo's YOLO? LOL NOPE Record: 5-2-1 Notes: this is lots of fun to play, especially after the 3 straight orzhov aggro builds. Heavy recursion, tokens, madness, yeah! I will admit I was wishing for some drake havens though... MVP: Wharf Infiltrator. So good, turning discard into free tokens. Fatal Push is fantastic here too, as it paces you into the midgame so well. Ditch: nothing jumps out at me. I'd probably switch a wilds or two for more basics. I do wonder if it might be worth testing Compelling deterrence over dark salvation? This is a little less zombie heavy than the orzhov builds, and lacks an answer to non-creatures like Anguished Unmaking.
Game logs:
Spoiler
1- bru removal (draw): this whole match is me against a couple Chandras, a tower and a ton of removal. I've got both masteries and a Scrounger and amalgam that keep coming back to give me a fighting chance, but I can't quite keep up and the tower eventually gets me. 2- gbu ramp (draw): risky draw, just 2 land but an infiltrator with one of each recursor. Opp keeps grabbing high cost stuff off their vessels instead of ramp cards, so even though they languish, the Scrounger and amalgam keep coming back, joined by a copter, and they never get to a point where they can play one of their win cons. 3- rb removal (draw): I see five pieces of targeted removal, and mostly just a copter on their board. That's fine with me and my five recurring zombies. They eventually draw into a big lily but it's too late. 4- gb delirium (play, AI): we both push each other's first move (dryad & infiltrator), I go Scrounger, Opp reclaims it then trades the sage for a Wanderer and makes the very AI decision of attacking a quagmire into my haunted dead and holding a vessel on the board uncracked. I play G&G unanswered, Gisa's Bidding and go wide quickly. 5- rb aggro madness (play): they start with Wanderer and Scrounger to my copter and colossus. Turning point is probably my T4, I play a lord and then use dark salvation as a Fatal Push on the bloodrage brawler they just played. Then I get an infiltrator that starts turning copter discards into eldrazi. They have a ton of burn and get me down to 2, so I'm just a topdeck away from death, but I get a baby lily to lock down the board, go wide and overrun them. 5.5- Unfortunately my most interesting match, against a wgb trials with hapatra where we kept trading the upper hand, hangs in an endless game sync. 6- ruw control (play): Opp mulligans to 6, and I really don't like my hand so I follow suite, except 6 is unplayable, so I start at 5 with infiltrator/bidding/3 land. All my early creatures get burned, I get a baby lily. They play tower so I stop playing creatures for them to burn and power it, then race to lily's ult while hoping they don't draw a 5th land to attack her with fumarole. I get the ult off, follow with a mastery, recur haunted dead with a bidding discard, push through a flamecaller and a bunch of other burn for the win. 7- wb zombie (draw): my early infiltrator hits a blessed alliance, they get a bontu's monument and two wayward servants, and keep bringing back a lord with gravediggers while I use a key to churn for a fifth land that doesn't come till it's too late.
Christ I just finished building the decks, that took more than an hour for crissakes. Wtf is with Shards deck?! I couldn't copy a single spell from another deck. Had to build it from scratch I did. You could show jump... jaysus
Now I only got 40 minutes till my show then I'm gonna have a Bath, my neck is super stiff cuz of you wankers
Some of these decks seem really cool, can't wait
If you didn't write them down on paper, it wouldn't have taken so long.
Notes for Elk's Yet Another Zombie Deck Record: 5-2 Notes: distinctly more favorable matchups in this set. No problem with Belcher here, 4 festering + Wanderer & Scrounger seems to be the right meal plan for them. MVP: Binding Mummy + Graf Harvest. Got this a couple times and it meant wins. You don't have a lot of ways to discard an extra harvest, but I might consider a second one anyway. Ditch: Forsaken Sanctuary for hubs or basics. 1/4 tap lands is too much for something that needs tempo the first three turns.
Game logs:
Spoiler
1- b (play): I play binding, lord that gets grasped, (opp goes to AI after not topping a third land in time), binding, Scrounger, I don't get another creature but they don't get another land. Not much of a game. 2- rbu (play): having learned nothing from my last opponent's plight, I keep a two land hand and the third doesn't show up before opp's baby lily ults. Oops. 3- gbw midrange (play): pretty good tempo hand, with festering, binding, colossus, lord, but they've got woodland Wanderer, cataclysmic & noxious gearhulk, avacyn, and I have removal for one of those. The rest kill me. 4- rw vehicles & burn (draw): pretty fast start with festering/servant/wanderer/belcher/Graf Harvest, the creatures get burned away after dealing good damage, but then I'm in a good spot with a couple Binding and the harvest, and they just have an exerted glorybringer and some uncrewed vehicles while I mop up. 5- rbu (play): festering, Cryptbreaker, token & vent start swinging under their unmanned copter. They cast haunted dead T4, which I totally wasn't expecting. I respond with mastery and keep swinging, then there's a Cathartic reunion that dumps a Scrounger and fiery temper, and I'm so curious about what they're playing that I almost want to string it out and see more of their deck. Instead I play lord and big tokens hit for the last 12. 6- bw zombie (play): finally hit the mirror! But it's anticlimactic. mulligan to six, I get two binding, two colossus and Belcher to their binding, Lord and dumb minotaur zombie. Seems like they stall at 3 land. No contest there. 7- ub discard (draw): I have a stronger board than them, especially after I Belcher a festering into their wharf infliltrator, and get a binding and harvest out together. They never get an Archfiend to save them so I win.
Thank you very much for the play testing and feedback. It's greatly appreciated! Shame about the mana screw in game two but it happens. I'm curious how often you were getting triggers off the 1 mana zombies (especially with binding on the board).
If I'm interpreting it correctly, it seems you enjoyed the deck too so that's a bonus.
I still would enjoy to hear from the person who voted for the deck too (unless it was a misclick).
Modulo's YOLO? LOL NOPE Record: 5-2-1 Notes: this is lots of fun to play, especially after the 3 straight orzhov aggro builds. Heavy recursion, tokens, madness, yeah! I will admit I was wishing for some drake havens though... MVP: Wharf Infiltrator. So good, turning discard into free tokens. Fatal Push is fantastic here too, as it paces you into the midgame so well. Ditch: nothing jumps out at me. I'd probably switch a wilds or two for more basics. I do wonder if it might be worth testing Compelling deterrence over dark salvation? This is a little less zombie heavy than the orzhov builds, and lacks an answer to non-creatures like Anguished Unmaking.
Game logs:
Spoiler
1- bru removal (draw): this whole match is me against a couple Chandras, a tower and a ton of removal. I've got both masteries and a Scrounger and amalgam that keep coming back to give me a fighting chance, but I can't quite keep up and the tower eventually gets me. 2- gbu ramp (draw): risky draw, just 2 land but an infiltrator with one of each recursor. Opp keeps grabbing high cost stuff off their vessels instead of ramp cards, so even though they languish, the Scrounger and amalgam keep coming back, joined by a copter, and they never get to a point where they can play one of their win cons. 3- rb removal (draw): I see five pieces of targeted removal, and mostly just a copter on their board. That's fine with me and my five recurring zombies. They eventually draw into a big lily but it's too late. 4- gb delirium (play, AI): we both push each other's first move (dryad & infiltrator), I go Scrounger, Opp reclaims it then trades the sage for a Wanderer and makes the very AI decision of attacking a quagmire into my haunted dead and holding a vessel on the board uncracked. I play G&G unanswered, Gisa's Bidding and go wide quickly. 5- rb aggro madness (play): they start with Wanderer and Scrounger to my copter and colossus. Turning point is probably my T4, I play a lord and then use dark salvation as a Fatal Push on the bloodrage brawler they just played. Then I get an infiltrator that starts turning copter discards into eldrazi. They have a ton of burn and get me down to 2, so I'm just a topdeck away from death, but I get a baby lily to lock down the board, go wide and overrun them. 5.5- Unfortunately my most interesting match, against a wgb trials with hapatra where we kept trading the upper hand, hangs in an endless game sync. 6- ruw control (play): Opp mulligans to 6, and I really don't like my hand so I follow suite, except 6 is unplayable, so I start at 5 with infiltrator/bidding/3 land. All my early creatures get burned, I get a baby lily. They play tower so I stop playing creatures for them to burn and power it, then race to lily's ult while hoping they don't draw a 5th land to attack her with fumarole. I get the ult off, follow with a mastery, recur haunted dead with a bidding discard, push through a flamecaller and a bunch of other burn for the win. 7- wb zombie (draw): my early infiltrator hits a blessed alliance, they get a bontu's monument and two wayward servants, and keep bringing back a lord with gravediggers while I use a key to churn for a fifth land that doesn't come till it's too late.
Thank you very much for the feedback! Glad to hear you had fun playing the deck.
Drake Haven is a card I'm very unsure about in this build. Even if the deck has enough discard/Cycling to enable it (which I doubt to be honest), you need to get at least 3 drakes out of it for the card to be worth it; and in my experience the deck is just faster than that. Compelling Deterrence was one of my Last cuts to the deck. I just found that the deck wanted to be as streamline as possible and with all the support I'm running to get my main theme to work (Key, Infiltrator, Copter) I couldn't fit it. Dark Salvation is too good to not play here IMO. Its flexibility to be played as cheap removal spell, mid-game creature(s) with upside or late-game board generator is too good to pass up.
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I have the same opinion regarding the drakes, they make the deck to slow and by the time you got 3 or 4 drakes you are going to win even with out them. I also think that cryptkeeper and wharf are to easy to remove, they usually dont stick around for long and thats where I think supernatural stamina may come in handy triggering prized amalgam as a bonus. I'm trying sultai at the moment with grapple, sage and that embalm hydra, its extremely fun to play.
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