For clarity sake, I don't believe I stated Festering Mummy is better than Smuggler's Copter and if I did, it was poorly worded and incorrectly conveyed. As I mentioned, I did test it and just like I was implying with Gideon, it's a great card. It always has been. It can be played here and win games for sure. That being said, it is what I cut to add in the Festering Mummy.

Festering Mummy is a 1 mana cast in an aggro based deck. It'll help with the aggro approach of curve 1, 2, 3 or 1, 2, 2 & 1 (or any other combination where you're ahead a creature or two on board). That 1 mana is easily available and used for any trigger based cards (Binding Mummy, Diregraf Colossus, Wayward Servant) and it's creature type gets all the benefits of the tribal theme (Menace, +1/+1, Cryptbreaker tap, counts towards Dark Salvation) not to mention it's a great target for the negative counters from Plague Belcher or sac target to Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet (which we don't usually mind since it makes our Diregraf Colossus cast bigger and it's always the first source of food for both Scrapheap Scrounger and Graf Harvest). That and we still need to consider the 'zombie creature type' density to get the most out of the deck (which is generally about 24 and we're at 22).

Unfortunately; while still being an excellent card and playable in the deck, Smuggler's Copter isn't (imo) really getting it's money's worth here like it does in other decks. I often feel like that about Scrapheap Scrounger when I see/play it (and felt the same about Gideon). They all work and they all win games and can easily be justified in these decks (just like they normally do). I just think sticking closer to the focus of the deck and meeting creature density to get the most out of the effects/synergies is going to result in better mileage. That's at least the logic I tell myself and why I went that way.

Again please accept my apology. I wasn't meaning to be such d*** or take a shot at you in any way. Just RL garbage that you caught heat from.



elk

Watching this thread like...

I have nothing to do with the decklists until the poll, so i will probably ask you about the decklist before the poll.

@elk, yeah, boring = obvious/competitive

I can't say I agree with most of what you just said. I think we run out of good zombies and then differences start to emerge. Personally, I don't think the deck suffers at all when you start adding cards like Scrounger instead of cards like throne, I think it's just a different take on the deck.

I can't wait to misplay your boring decks!

I hope WW still participates. Old Brutal was monstrous

Gideon I agree with elk. Double white isn't necessary for that 1 card or even Avacyn. I run copters and scrapheaps rather than the 1/1 zombies. The artifacts don't add additional color constraints, meanwhile fit duels aggro curve when we don't have untapped dual lands, and they represent two of the best aggro cards in duels. I can see how 1 mana zombie can trigger tribal effects in ETB and can enable double spell T3. They are no doubt good in that way, but I don't think the synergies make them good enough to overtake the slots of copters and scroungers. Many things in deck building are subjective. I have many insists in my own deck building too, but I try not to insult // injury. Apologies accepted elk.

well Sl33p and I are disappointed. We came here for a show I guess I'll have to create my own fun then...



Hey sleep, maybe before you open your mouth you shouldn't post funny gifs telegraphing that we want to see some action

About Gideon, I'm always confused when people think it's a questionable card, tbh... I don't always use Gideon, but I probably should. It's just so good, even if it's just there to come down and give a permanent boost.

That all comes down to probabilities that you get double white by which turn and at the same time having Gideon. With 14 white so apparently you didn't tweak mana base specifically for that singleton Gideon, However with probability calculation, 14 white sources only reliably get to double white by turn 8. Now we are comparing a turn 8 gideon with another card. but anyways, I agree one line from vert that usually consistency don't win a tournament but the power does. Depends how one think "reliably" means to him. Some think more than 50% is consistent, others may think 95%.

14 is way more than sufficient. And it's a much better topdeck than just about any card. I think I wouldn't start running a ton of double white cards in the deck, but one, certainly.

sure. the turn 7/8 calculation is based on 90% probability. Given that the probability you draw Gideon is less than 25%, you don't need a 90% probability for double white.

Someone has been having fun with the Hypergeometric Calculator

True, but IMO not the best one... you should all be going here instead: http://bopmtg-bopmtg.rhcloud.com/misc/mana-tables

This is a much better source for those types of land decisions. (Note: I fully understand the probabilities involved, can make these tables myself, etc... so this statement isn't made off the cuff or anything.) You can trust that it's very well built and properly thought out - also the math checks out, and makes a lot of sense.

Hyperboring!

Probaboring!

That´s a visual accumulative layout of the Hyperboring calculator, its a great reference to determine the amount of mana sources needed to cast double mana spells, complemented with the Hyperboring calculator for the correct number of lands it´s a very boring precise way to aproach mana base and mana curve.

That´s very boring Interesting

Just to clarify it better: it's a conditional probability matrix based on the joint hypergeometric distributions of both lands and cards. It's a very neat, and imo extremely useful tool for deck building. That, augmented by some simple CMC to Land Count theory, is more than sufficient to start building advanced level mana bases. It's a big part of the reason so many of my decks run so smoothly - or at least that's what I keep telling myself, haha!

I'm still running Scrapheap for the recursion aspect and if I were to cram Copter back in, I'd probably cut the Throne and Graf Harvest. The 1/1's aren't super but they work here and I definitely want easy triggers in the deck as well as a high zombie count. I'm definitely going with a more synergy based choice though by not running the copters.

@ DJ - Same goes for the Gideon. If I were to cram another walker in, I'd probably go with big Lily for the synergy before I made room for the Gideon power choice. Big Lily is another card that should probably be in the 60 over the Throne. Not to mention that big Lily would have better synergy with copter in the deck. If I were to add in the copter's, I'd probably cut 1 of the Festering Mummies for the walker but I still believe after so much testing, that the zombie count needs to be this high to get the most out of the deck. I can't count the number of times; in previous versions, where I draw another piece of removal when I'd rather have more gas/triggers.

Like I mentioned, they're all good cards and good choices. They all work here. I definitely have a few 'cute' cards in here for fun, flavor and synergy whereas several of the other options did add more value/power (and as mentioned I have run/tested them all in quite a few different versions). Having said that, I don't think the minor differences will hugely detract from the overall performance of the deck and my cute choices do still work. In the grand scheme though, it sounds like several of the submissions are so close in card count that it'll feel like we're all playing the same deck over and over.

I hope there's some real wonky inclusions to give some variety.


elk

Zoombies

Description
And I fell on... black days...

Creature(18)
2 x Walking Ballista
2 x Cryptbreaker
2 x Dread Wanderer
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
2 x Syndicate Trafficker
2 x Diregraf Colossus
2 x Lord of the Accursed
2 x Plague Belcher
1 x Erebos's Titan
1 x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet

Instant(5)
3 x Fatal Push
2 x Grasp of Darkness

Sorcery(2)
2 x Dark Salvation

Split(2)
2 x Never

Planeswalker(2)
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
1 x Liliana, Death's Majesty

Artifact(7)
2 x Smuggler's Copter
2 x Aethersphere Harvester
2 x Fleetwheel Cruiser
1 x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship

Land(24)
22 x Swamp
2 x Westvale Abbey

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 2d636a6560

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

Doesn't qualify, but this is my mono-black zombies on wheels deck. Hasn't lost a game yet!