I actually counter the ramp, because I'm running more counters than the average build.

Gaea's Revenge will always be troublesome as my only answers are Disciple, Kefnet and Gearhulk so I have to delay as much as I can.

The Game I won against your build he actually cast Gaea's, but I had gearhulk ready.

Don't you think that key to the city can do some of the work that Cathartic Reunion does?

Plus is an artifact and does an interesting job for the final blow...

I throwed in also a an ever after

@Varjo - I feel like tournaments where you know each other's list is a litmus test, but I've never played them. It's possible to play around the blue gearhulk by not attacking for a turn and then either using instant-speed removal on it or playing another threat after combat, although I doubt I'd think that far in a game on ladder. And of course, while opponent will sideboard removal that can remove Gaea's, this deck will also sideboard more threats that need to be countered. I wonder how post-board games will be like. Anyone interested to play some games?

@HARBiNG3R - 3 Nissa's Pilgrimage with only four Forest is a definite problem in the deck. As it is the first Nissa's Pilgrimage is great, the second is often a Sorcery-speed Natural Connection, and the third is just fodder for Cathartic Reunion. I just don't see an alternative however. The other ramp spells are just not powerful enough.

@Thorcas - I did think about Key to the City while looking for artifacts to pair with Unlicensed Disintegration, but discarded the idea. First, Key is quite slow and mana intensive, and you want to spend the early turns casting ramp. Second, Key requires a target. This deck is not likely to have one. You could use it on an opponent's creature, but not every opponent runs creatures. The other benefits of Key (madness enabler, reach) are not relevant. If this deck reaches late-game it ought to win via one of the big creatures - it might take longer, but it should still win.

I considered Ever After during early deck construction, but eventually tossed out the idea. Instead of doing two things at the same time, I think it's better to concentrate on doing one. All the reanimation planeswalkers also have other uses, but Ever After / Necromantic Summons etc are very specialized. I think there's a deck to be made around them, but it probably shouldn't include ramp and should include more discard effects.

Also, my interest in this deck is beginning to wane; I don't feel like I can optimize it much more (if you are able to though, please share!). The only remaining question is Nissa vs. Reclamation Sage, but that's very matchup dependent. I will say that Rec Sage is often the difference between life and death, while Nissa is just a generic good card. On the other hand if the rest of your hand is blank, Nissa is way way better than Rec Sage. It's a metagame call.

Did you consider Ghirapur Orrery?

Even if all Nissa's Pilgrimage hit eveytine you cast it it doesn't really do anything for you though. Most of your spells only need one single outside of Gaea's Revenge and the rest need either double or or a mix of both. Not to mention that they also can prevent flip Nissa from transforming if you top deck her. I think gifts of paradise is definitely the better option for your deck.

I've not really considered Ghirapur Orrery. How does that work in the deck? I'm seldom hellbent (naturally, since holding some spares for Cathartic Reunion is good). The more-lands clause is symmetric, so I don't see how it helps.

As for Pilgrimage vs. Gifts, it isn't about getting the green mana but about getting more lands in play. The deck can play e.g. big Liliana on turn 5 because of Nissa's Pilgrimage. Also, as mentioned in the OP, Pilgrimage's effect on Sylvan Advocate & on Cathartic Reunion (and vice versa) is something to consider as well. It's my experience that Pilgrimage is firmly better than Gift, but if you like the reverse, feel free

Well, you do draw a card with it (a forest), so it really helps with landdrops to keep on curve. I like the comparison between Nissa's Pilgrimage and divination . I perfectly respect Banedon's attempt to play with the card.

All that said, given the veggies and the amount of forest, I'm pretty sure that running 4 of these is a big mistake. Maybe 2 + 3 gift (especially considering the double costs needed in many spells), cut another card ?
I havent yet been through the list in depth, your comment of 4 forest + 4 pilgrimage got me interested. My attempts building ramp always came accross this similar problem : Nissa's pilgrimage is the best ramp card by far, but it almost locks you out of tricolor unless you don't go all in on it.

I haven't been able to beat the AI once with this deck since the tweaks

I'll bring it on ladder soon just to see

Barney bringing a deck he can't pilot to AI wins to the ladder. Can only end in one way.

After very many games with the deck, colour screw happens so rarely (4 Evolving Wilds as well as a plethora of dual lands) that I think Gift's advantage of being able to fix colours is virtually irrelevant. I also don't remember any games in which Nissa's Pilgrimage is stranded in hand while I still need more lands. That would mean all four Forests are on the field and I still have an Ulamog or something in hand - with four Forests in play, chances are I have at least 7 lands, so I'd be able to cast every card in my hand except Ulamog. I am quite confident Pilgrimage is the superior card, but to each his own.

I've lost three games with this deck now, two to Mardu vehicles and one to White weenie. T2 Copter is bad. Don't suppose there's something that can be done though, it's just the nature of aggro decks. Win rate against the AI is around 90%!



He's gonna wake up tomorrow naked with his room trashed and no memory of what happened last night, then log on to find he's dropped ten ranks

Hello again.

I see what do you say but you can use key to the city without targets...

I use it in my reanimation deck and is very useful.

It is somehow mana intensive but reusable AND can team up with Unlicensed Disintegration AND can contribute to evasion.

Don't think is such a bad idea...

I am also experimenting with Appetite for the Unnatural.

I love the "instantness", is very useful and usually we have three mana open waiting for ramp...

I suddenly feel very stupid ... but still, I don't think Key to the City is worth it. Reasons:

1) This deck is weakest against aggressive decks. That's when you really want to dig for your Languish and Yahenni's, etc. Key to the City is considerably slower than Cathartic Reunion in that regard, not to mention significantly more mana intensive. If you're under the gun, you really can't use your T2 + T3 to draw a card. Key to the City is better than Cathartic Reunion late-game, but it's the early-game that the deck needs the most help in.

2) Evasion is not necessary in this deck, since it's supposed to overpower the other deck with superior creatures (my Gaea's Revenge vs. your Glory-Bound Initiate, for example - I don't need evasion, I can just keep attacking and force you to chump block until you run out of cards).

If you have had good experiences with Key to the City, I'll try it regardless. What did you drop for it?

About Appetite for the Unnatural, I think that card is strictly inferior to Reclamation Sage. It's hard for me to see instant speed as being worth more than a 2/1 body. Why do you prefer it to Rec Sage?

Hello Banedon.

I suffered the aggressive decks and yes, there is a problem there but didn't feel that Chatartic can solve anything there either. Anyway the problem of initial turns is there, don't know how to solve that (and as you say key is too slow to give some help).

I like evasion because gives you more speed in the final turns, sometimes makes huge difference. Not always you have time to keep attacking and let the enemy to recover...

I had mixed experiences with key to the city but I thing is OK for decks that don't fear to discard, need card advantage and may need evasion.

I put a key instead of a Cahtartic at first. Now experimenting replacing two.

As for Appetite I felt that for aggro some extra life don't hurt and in the 3CMC zone we are expecting a ramp spell in the next turn. So if the opponent drops some nasty enchantment / artifact just cast Appetite, enjoy extra life, untap and ramp.

If you must cast Rec Sage in your turn you have to wait an extra turn to ramp and the sage is not such a great body anyway and will not last much. I'm happy with Appetite so far in this particular deck because of ramp. I agree that in general deck building Sage is superior.

Re: Cathartic vs. aggressive decks - it's not that you want to discard your win conditions to reanimate later, but rather you are digging for your removal spells. Fatal Push, Languish, even Liliana the Last Hope against decks with X/1's. By drawing three cards you are that much closer to getting them. You don't have the mana to draw cards with Key until later.

As for Appetite, I feel like we're playing the decks differently. I didn't find Gift of Paradise's 3 life very useful, but you are finding Appetite's 2 life useful? That's very unusual. Sage may not live for long, but if it trades with e.g. a Fiery Temper, it's still gained three life; it can also chump block to save some life. Turn 3 with this deck can be quite a few things too: Nissa's Pilgrimage, play tapland + Cathartic, removal, etc. I guess in the end if it works for you, all the better!

Anyway I like your deck very much, just testing some cards I found worked somehow in reanimator shell but open to changes.

Very fun to play, thanks!