I don't disagree with this, I think the same logic applies to him. My 3 drop of choice is actually Gideon of the trials at the moment, but I've played with all three and I think they all work.

Cutting one of our biggest weapons vs. aggro for a big dumb body that just sits on the board for like 5 turns.

NOT GREAT, BOB.

I wouldn't call her one of our biggest; she's a weapon. I think depending on the rest of your card mix you may or may not need her in that slot. That being said, that's why I'm running Giedon of the trials at the moment. He can blank threats and also win games if not answered. Unlike lil, he deals better with midrange and can be a solution to PWs that resolve.

I really do think any of the three work in that slot.

Eh, PWs shouldn't be a big concern for counter-based control. We have counters, Cast Out, Anguished, and Never all to deal with them. I like Lili because she outright removes 1 toughness creatures, which means she can handle alot of the low-to-the-ground decks we struggle with.

I think that's a totally fair line of reasoning. With my deck and playstyle I tended to find that in matchups where I really needed her ability to kill 1 toughness creatures I was likely going to lose anyway and in games where I ulted her I was likely going to win even with a less powerful win condition. For me, the tradeoff of Gideon (less powerful finish, worse vs very low to the ground decks) was worth it for his assistance in stabilizing midgame. I like the ability to let many threats through, know that Gideon can contain them, and hold answers for more important stuff. Later, when I resolve some draw, I can deal with whatever I let through and use Gideon to swing for the face.

I would not fault anyone for running lil instead.

Eh, I run both; I like the versatility.

So I'm finding one of the hardest things for this deck to deal with is GY recursion (things like scrounger). Thoughts on running 2x scarab feast? I realize normally it would be a sideboard card but... they cycle at least.

Eh, too narrow to make a main deck, imo.

You're likely right... I'm swapping in a dec in stone which gives me five answers (2 anguished and 2 cast out).

On the contrary I have had 1 feast in my main since the set released. I've been happy with it so far.

We also have Never // Return which helps with Planeswalkers and Scrouger

I run a full play set of unsubstantiate, anguish unmaking, never return and declaration in stone. I usually like things to be gone forever and my friend keeps telling me that unsubstantiate is bad late game but if I can survive to late game than chances of me winning are already high.

So, between the Steam Showdown and Xbox Fight Club, there are 4 Esper Control decks: just me in the Fight Club, and Sjokwaave, TheWizard, and Varjo in the Showdown. Notes about the decks (only maindecks, can't see sideboards)

Every deck runs a full playset of:

Torrential Gearhulk
Fatal Push
Censor
Scatter to the Winds
Anguished Unmaking
Languish
Ob Nixilis Reignited
Sorin, Grim Nemesis

Everyone runs at least 2:

Cast Out
Blessed Alliance
Glimmer of Genius (I am the only one running 2 instead of 3)


Everyone runs at least 1:

Pull from Tomorrow
Confirm Suspicions (Sjok is the only one not running 2)


Interesting notes:

Only one Gideon of the Trials (TheWizard)
One one Jace, Vryn's Prodigy (me)
No Kefnet the Mindful
Two decks run no sorceries besides Languish, the others have 1x Declaration in Stone and 1x Never //Return
Commit // Memory is a 2x for Varjo, a 1x for Sjok, and 0x for me and TheWizard


Counting Censor and Commit // Memory as counters,

I run 11 counterspells
Sjok runs 10 counterspells
TheWizard runs 10 counterspells
Varjo runs 12 counterspells


I run 5 Planeswalkers (6 if you count Jace, Vryn's Prodigy)
Sjok runs 4 Planeswalkers
TheWizard runs 5 Planeswalkers (he runs Gideon of the Trials, but no Jace, Unraveler of Secrets)
Varjo runs 3 Planeswalkers

Both TheWizard and Sjok skew away from white and thus neither runs either Gideon. Varjo is the only one not running Liliana, the Last Hope.


Should be interesting. The shell is very similar in each deck and I think the format is a good one for our decks, with most decks doing nothing turn 1. I wish you good luck in crushing the dreams of your enemies.

BORING!

Your dreams are my favorite to crush.

Yeah, pushing white is asking too much of the deck IMO; I need blue and black early as that is were our aggro answers are and I want counters up ASAP. While Gideon is amazing we have now have a critical mass of tools that we can afford to drop him without hurting the deck. Still sucks to be without him.

Be interesting to see how we've all boarded should we make it that far.

He's worth stretching the mana alittle. We need the early white anyway for Blessed Alliance and it gives me a few other ways to go with sideboarding.

Interesting analysis, we'll see how my decision to swap some finishers for more answers ends up working for me... my hope its it will add some consistency (though I think I'm at a disadvantage in the mirror, particularly as I'm not maindecking disciple). It will be really interesting to see what people did with sideboards (I fully expect scarab feasts and dispells to make an appearance).

Also surprised not to see commit to memory being valued more. I'm in love with the card (for the frontside). Yes it's 1 cost more than a counter, but it also can act as (essentially) a cast out (as it hits indestructible non-lands on the board). Because we run so many counters, I'm not generally too worried about stuff going back in the library and the card maintains card-advantage parity (like a counterspell and unlike unsubstantiate).

Not running unsubstantiates was a tough decision for me. In testing I really liked the card, but I found it competed with censor, fatal push, and blessed alliance and I generally preferred to draw one of those. Interesting thing to note though... unsub is solid vs both aggro and the mirror (as it can win counterspell wars) which may end up giving it more value than I expected. I found it weak vs midrange stuff (like some of the madness decks I've been seeing on ladder) where the card disadvantage could be problematic.

Spoilers: Unsub made my sideboard for exactly this reason.

I do respect the choice of running Commit // Memory in these decks. I feel like the card will have a bigger impact in the showdown than it does on ladder; then again everyone's experience is subjective.