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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:54 am 
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So I decided to try a variation of this hellbent....

It's already becoming one of my favorites. Mainly due to the pacing. It's FERVENT. Like, consistent stream of attacks or hijinks.
With this build, I went 10-2 last night/this morning.

Hellbent-y Deluxe

Creature (25)
CMC1 -9
2x Bomat Courier
2x Dread Wanderer
3x Flameblade Adept
2x Insolent Neonate

CMC2 -11
1x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
2x Scrapheap Scrounger
2x Lupine Prototype
3x Olivia's Dragoon
3x Bloodrage Brawler

CMC3 -1
1x Olivia, Mobilized for War

CMC4 -4
1x Hazoret the Fervent
2x Bloodhall Priest
1x Heart-Piercer Manticore

Instant/Sorcery (9)
4x Fiery Temper
3x Unlicensed Disintegration
1x Alms of the Vein
1x Insult // Injury

Artifact(5)
2x Smuggler's Copter
1x Heart of Kiran
2x Key to the City

Land(21)
2x Smoldering Marsh
8x Swamp
8x Mountain
2x Dragonskull Summit
1x Geier Reach Sanitarium


---------------

At any rate, here are some reasons:
*let's assume that you are trying to empty your hand by T4.

Signature Pieces:

Flameblade Adept is a great turn 1, but the most important pieces here:
1) He's cheap, you don't mind dumping him.
2) He has barely enough toughness to survive a -1/-1
3) You will be discarding cards... so inevitably, he will grow

at 1 mana, Bomat Courier and Insolent Neonate have provided decent card draw if you run out of options. Bomat Courier as a decoy OR as a chumpblocker.

Dread Wanderer and Scrounger are great discard targets and pilots. People love to remove them, but they just keep coming back.

Olivia's Dragoon --- dump your hand all at once, or simply evade your way to victory. I have seen people purposefully avoid removing him in favor of targeting Brawler or Neonate, probably because he's so underwhelming, but 2 deals dmg consistently.

Bloodrage Brawler --- the 4/3 beater for 2 AND he discards... so good.
Hazoret the Fervent--- kind of a given, discard outlet and a beater.
Bloodhall Priest--- a 4/4 for 4, benefits from madness, and deals dmg EtB. Total winner.
Smuggler's Copter--- a powerhouse, damage and discard.
Lupine Prototype ---- a 5/5 for 2.... that's value economics.

The removals... Unlicensed Disintegration and Fiery Temper
Work well, with the latter utilizing madness
I probably drew Alms of the Vein three out of 10 games, and every time, it was excellent. Plenty of discard outlets get it for cheap, and +/-3 life is basically "insult-to-injury" (not to be confused with the card.)

Running only 21 lands doesn't seem to hurt at all. The sweet spot here is around 4 mana, and *knock on wood*, haven't had any issues getting mana to go.

Optional Flavour/Potential trade-outs..
Heart of Kiran - a good beater and removal decoy.
Kari Zev, Skyship Raider - soley here for aggro/pilot... I'm not married to her, but the monkey is kind of cool, as is First Strike/Menace, it's basically free damage.

Olivia, Mobilized for War ---- I WANT to like her.
She flies, She is a discard outlet, She makes creatures EtB hasty +1/+1...
Decent body (*whistles*).... a 3/3 for 3...
my issues with her:
at 3CMC, she is on the heavy end of the manacurve, and I find it hard to play her and another creature on the same turn; and because of that, she plays the primary role of removal bait.

Insult // Injury --- Like olivia, I want to like this card... but how much does the double damage and/or aftermath burn help? Out of 10 games, I maybe pulled it 3 times, and every time, I ended up dumping it.

Key to the City -- it works in like 50% of situations where you want to discard/draw, but I have found it completely underwhelming. mostly because of the activation cost during untap.... My curve is 3-4, and this takes up all of it.

Heart-Piercer Manticore --- does this guy even work? at the top of my curve, he's just a little too bulky.

maybeboard?
+Lightning Axe --- I wish this would hit to the face.
+1 Alms of the Vein.... another?
+2 Lathnu Hellion --- the quintessential aggro guy and removal bait.
+Heir of Falkenrath---- how did I miss this little ray of sunshine!?

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:32 pm 
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p3hndrx wrote:
So I decided to try a variation of this hellbent....

It's already becoming one of my favorites. Mainly due to the pacing. It's FERVENT. Like, consistent stream of attacks or hijinks.
With this build, I went 10-2 last night/this morning.

Hellbent-y Deluxe
Spoiler


Nice. You're only 2 cards different than the list I did (trading out Naheb for 1 Alms and 1 Insult // Injury - and Neheb is the one card I was feeling needed to go) viewtopic.php?f=61&t=18512&start=20#p557610

I'm on the same page with these deck needing Dragoon. An unconditional and free discard source is extremely important for Hellbent decks IMHO. Plus 2 in the air is better than one might think.

Yeah, idk about Insult // Injury. I was attracted to it initially but figured w/o trample it doesn't seem like something the deck wants to spend 3 mana on. Deck also doesn't want to get to 6 mana to play both sides at once. If you discarded it every time you've drawn it, you should just cut it.

I'm still ok running a single Manticore myself. I haven't minded tossing it into GY early where it can sit and threaten that last bit of reach if the game goes longer than I want. I have hard cast it once sacing a prototype FTW too.

I'm also very happy with Kari Zev. Another menace attacker along with some of the 1 drops to make blocking difficult for opp, and the monkey is nice additional pressure early. I wouldn't hate going up to both copies in mine.

I was thinking of trying Cut // Ribbons instead of Naheb. Thinking being it'd be nice to burn out blockers with Cut, also fine to discard having Aftermath, and Ribbons like Manticore is some inevitability chilling in the yard. My other current candidate to replace Neheb is Alms.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:35 pm 
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I already said it in another thread, but let the inner-johnny get busy thinking about ways of breaking one the coolest combat tricks in the game: Supernatural Stamina.
Just read the card, it dies then comes back! I smell a combo!
I wonder how it would work with greenwarden. I sac him, he dies, I Choose to exile and get my stamina back, then does he stay exiled or come back to life? Both triggers are on death, so I wonder how stainless coded it.

Anyway, its a great card against all the removal flying around and for sacrificing your guys and getting more ETB/on death value.
Also wonder if it triggers amalgam?

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Further testing with V1 had mixed results. Flooding out was a death kneel. Wanted more reach. Naheb didnt feel worth it. With only 2 spells I need to pay 4 mana for, I decided to drop a couple lands because I don't mind pitching those 4CMC spells if I happen to draw them and I'm not hitting land drops. Feeling my main question now is whether my 1 drops are too low in count. Early testing with V2 has been good tho - Alms has pulled weight and put a couple games away for me.

-2x Naheb, -1x Insolent Neonate, -1x Swamp, -1x Mountain. +1x Karl, +4 Alms of the Vein.

Potential subs: Keep Land 21, run 2x Molten Vortex

V2:

Hell is Where the Heart is

2 x Dread Wanderer
3 x Flameblade Adept
1 x Insolent Neonate
2 x Bomat Courier

3 x Olivia's Dragoon
2 x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
3 x Bloodrage Brawler
2 x Lupine Prototype
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
1 x Heart of Kiran
2 x Smuggler's Copter
2 x Key to the City

1 x Olivia, Mobilized for War
4 x Fiery Temper
3 x Unlicensed Disintegration
4 x Alms of the Vein

1 x Hazoret the Fervent
1 x Heart-Piercer Manticore
2 x Bloodhall Priest

6 x Swamp
6 x Mountain
2 x Smoldering Marsh
2 x Dragonskull Summit
3 x Aether Hub

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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:24 am 
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Preferred Pronoun Set: Xhir/xhim, depending on Moon phase
For me, Naheb delivers...4 FS is good in itself, and pumping the Brawlers is no small advantage. Blocking him is a pain, and not blocking, worse...combs with Key for that, btw. Also, I play with the Chrasher even here, and that helps

I'll post my actualized list later


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Preferred Pronoun Set: Xhir/xhim, depending on Moon phase
3 x Fatal Push
2 x Cryptbreaker

3 x Olivia's Dragoon
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
3 x Bloodrage Brawler
2 x Smuggler's Copter
2 x Cut // Ribbons
2 x Cathartic Reunion

3 x Ahn-crop Crasher
4 x Fiery Temper
2 x Alms of the Vein
2 x Neheb, the Worthy
1 x Olivia, Mobilized for War
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope

1 x Hazoret the Fervent
1 x Heart-Piercer Manticore

2 x Archfiend of Ifnir

9 x Swamp
8 x Mountain

2 x Smoldering Marsh
2 x Dragonskull Summit
3 x Cinder Barrens


Ok, strong Minotaur sub-theme, as can be seen...Neheb is one of the few cards we have that really wants us to be hellbent, cutting him is heresy! Besides, so many busted openings with Brawler t2, Neheb or Crasher t3, Neheb or Dragoon t4 etc

The inclusion of Reunions can feel weird, but as said, I really only have 3-4 cards that requires being hellbent, and I want the selection and food that Reunions give, plus they comb with Temper/Alms and Ifnir...and if you already have Hazoret or something, you just discard them. Also, Dragoons make hand size irrelevant...

Most of the time I don't need Ifnir, talking about him...but in those games where op stalls with tokens or the like, he's very welcomed. Reunions, Dragoons, Olivia etc make him lethal


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Re: Hell is Where the Heart is:

Is Dread Wanderer really good for this? 2/1 for 1 is ok, but the recursion ability seems so slow. 3 mana to set up a 2/1 that won't be able to do ANYTHING till the following turn? The fact that the recursion abiliy is sorc timing just seems excessive on top of its etb tapped.

I haven't tried it yet but I have a hard time believing its better than Neonate.


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:19 pm 
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It's a nice T1 play. Also something I don't mind pitching to discard effects. Getting hellbent pretty reliably (and I've been playing quite a bit with this list - power leveled to 40 with it, and it's my go-to for recovering 40 rank after testing jank ideas drops me down to 30s), and recurring it for another attacking body next turn has come up a few times. Wanderer and Scrounger are both nice bring backs since deck pitches resources like crazy. I'm not going any lower in my one drops, and haven't come across any I'd prefer swapping it out for.

I do prefer it to Neonates. Those guys don't come back, which is a big deal when in top deck mode (which list wants to do asap). In V1 I was running 3x Neonates but they weren't pulling enough weight for me. I only run 1 because I can't run 4x Adepts.

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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Granted I didn't screen every deck but I'm surprised Furyblade Vampire isn't in more lists. Granted I realize it's not an activated effect so it telegraphs your discard but hellbent is generally an aggroish style deck and I'm assuming most discards are meant to be on our turn anyway. A 4/3 with trample just seems like it fits here. I do understand/appreciate the inclusions of Olivia's Dragoon though (which I'm assuming is one of the replacements).

So just to have a bet in the pot, maybe something like this?

2 x Bomat Courier
3 x Flameblade Adept
3 x Furyblade Vampire
3 x Bloodrage Brawler
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
2 x Smuggler's Copter
1 x Heart of Kiran
2 x Key to the City
1 x Olivia, Mobilized for War
2 x Bloodhall Priest
1 x Hazoret the Fervent
1 x Avaricious Dragon
4 x Fiery Temper
3 x Unlicensed Disintegration
2 x Insult // Injury
4 x Alms of the Vein
2 x Smoldering Marsh
2 x Dragonskull Summit
2 x Cinder Barrens
12 x Mountain
6 x Swamp


This is totally shooting from the hip. I generally don't play this style of build and of course I haven't tested this before posting so I have no idea how it'll work. I just tried to keep a :r: start for the mana and stuck with quite a few regulars for the theme. I'm sure someone will ask why Lupine Prototype isn't in the deck but I just can't. I've never had any success with it and just hate that card. I'm sure it'd work though.

Now I need to actually build this and see what happens :D

Dang Giocher for starting up the deck builder contest again with :r::b: as it's theme (although I'd probably submit a vehicle deck like DJ/CGB's if I were to participate).

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 1:03 am 
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Avaricious Dragon is pretty bad. I tried to use him in hellbent a few seasons ago, and he wasn't worth a spot then - and now we have a lot more selection. I think you want your curve toppers to be versital (priests=madness, potential shock), pay immediate dividends (Manticore), or have boss potential (Hazoret). Maybe there's others worth considering, but they need to do more. You're going to feel bad when you don't cast Dragon T4 because it will make you discard Alms/Tempers you don't have mana left over to pay for - or when you do discard hand and opp hits him with removal right away. I'd prob even run Phoenix over Dragon tbh.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:59 am 
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Avaricious Dragon is pretty bad. I tried to use him in hellbent a few seasons ago, and he wasn't worth a spot then - and now we have a lot more selection. I think you want your curve toppers to be versital (priests=madness, potential shock), pay immediate dividends (Manticore), or have boss potential (Hazoret). Maybe there's others worth considering, but they need to do more. You're going to feel bad when you don't cast Dragon T4 because it will make you discard Alms/Tempers you don't have mana left over to pay for - or when you do discard hand and opp hits him with removal right away. I'd prob even run Phoenix over Dragon tbh.

Timh is right on every count. Pheonix is actually good in hellbent because you can Discard it early and get it back later, but its more for grindy games and not for all-in aggro.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:05 am 
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Re: Hell is Where the Heart is:

Is Dread Wanderer really good for this? 2/1 for 1 is ok, but the recursion ability seems so slow. 3 mana to set up a 2/1 that won't be able to do ANYTHING till the following turn? The fact that the recursion abiliy is sorc timing just seems excessive on top of its etb tapped.

I haven't tried it yet but I have a hard time believing its better than Neonate.

Wanderer is good. When your hellbent you often don't have much to do with your mana, so bring him back.
As to Neonate... Why not both?

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Haven_pt wrote:
Avaricious Dragon is pretty bad. I tried to use him in hellbent a few seasons ago, and he wasn't worth a spot then - and now we have a lot more selection. I think you want your curve toppers to be versital (priests=madness, potential shock), pay immediate dividends (Manticore), or have boss potential (Hazoret). Maybe there's others worth considering, but they need to do more. You're going to feel bad when you don't cast Dragon T4 because it will make you discard Alms/Tempers you don't have mana left over to pay for - or when you do discard hand and opp hits him with removal right away. I'd prob even run Phoenix over Dragon tbh.

Timh is right on every count. Pheonix is actually good in hellbent because you can Discard it early and get it back later, but its more for grindy games and not for all-in aggro.

Yeah now that you guys say that, I recall that being an issue with the dragon (removed and then your hand dumped). Like I mentioned, hellbent was never a theme I enjoyed (even though I do enjoy aggro) and even though the deck was fine (never drew the dragon BTW), it's just not my cup of tea. Just wanted to explore it for the deck building contest. The concern I have now is that there aren't many other spike options to consider outside cars. Might be yet another contest I don't submit a contender.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:18 pm 
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Re: Hell is Where the Heart is:

Is Dread Wanderer really good for this? 2/1 for 1 is ok, but the recursion ability seems so slow. 3 mana to set up a 2/1 that won't be able to do ANYTHING till the following turn? The fact that the recursion abiliy is sorc timing just seems excessive on top of its etb tapped.

I haven't tried it yet but I have a hard time believing its better than Neonate.


The ONLY time this came back to haunt me is when I bring back Wanderer and I need a pilot ASAP.
Otherwise, he's good for discard fodder with the replay for 2.

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:32 am 
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Most of the time I don't need Ifnir, talking about him...but in those games where op stalls with tokens or the like, he's very welcomed. Reunions, Dragoons, Olivia etc make him lethal


I feel like, if I'm going to push this to a 5-mana top end, the first card in the 5-mana slot would be Glorybringer. I can see Ifnir being better against a token swarm, but in all other cases, that 4/4 haste with removal attached is a game closer.


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 11:11 am 
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HELL IS WHERE THE HEART IS V2


I've played around 20 games with this version and haven't lost yet on the ladder. Lost a couple games to Gem running a tournament worthy Bant Midrange deck (went 1-2, really tough matchup with Reflector mages, Unsubstantiates, Spellquellers, and Thalias etc to throw me off tempo and take it to lategame where his bombs are bigger), but I can't remember exactly if I was running V1 or V2 when we had our test session.

I was really worried about having cut a couple 1 drops along with a couple lands, and while I do need to mulligan a bit more often, it's still been very strong. Starting with 6 cards has even helped me get hellbent quicker, being a bonus in some games rather than a penalty.

This will be the deck I submit for the Rakdos aggro challenge. Only change I've made to V2 so far is -1 Kari, +1 Dragoon (making sure my Alms/Tempers only cost 1 mana is very important). I love Kari in the deck but am not sure running 2 is more important than some other choices. Thought about cutting a Prototype instead, but for whatever reason that card scares the piss out of opponents and they often make (imo) bad plays to answer Prototype. Plus he's another artifact to make sure Unlicensed deals 3d.

Still plan to be testing up to the deadline. Aside from deciding if 4 Dragoon is better than 2 Kari, the only thing I'm considering is -1 Manticore for +1 land. Manticore has only ever gotten cast 1 time, but it sac'd a Prototype for lethal so I haven't cut it yet (have a hard time cutting cards that have won me games, even if rarely).

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