Evolving as I play. Still not my ideal list as the game just won't give me the last few cards I need (2nd and 3rd Lord, 4th Binding Mummy and all 3 Time to Reflect), which is why Mastery is here as a single copy (I know I know, 21 land, but it's a 1 of and will be replaced as soon as I get the other damn lords).

Biggest change has been the mana, as most of my losses on the ladder were due to bad starts because of bad mana. The deck just can't afford to be playing tap lands. This is why I cut the Vents (which may be a mistake, will see later). Honestly Cradle of the Accursed has actually exceeded my expectations by a lot.

Stopped after hitting the gold cap a few minutes ago and was sitting at rank 22 on Xbox playing only this list the past two days.

Going forward, 2x Thalia will be replaced by 2x Lord, 1x Mastery will be swapped for 1x Binding Mummy.

Once the game decides to finally give me some copies of Time to Reflect I plan on testing that out, but until I do I can't make any real judgements on the removal suite. 3x Push/2x Dec has been working well, but there are times when Push falls flat on its face for this deck, so I could easily see going something like 2x Push/2x Dec/1x Time.

Still iffy on Time to Reflect, especially without testing. On the one hand permanently answering just about any creature based threat being run for is stupid good. On the other hand, having to have our creatures get blocked to use it means we can't really use it as a tempo tool to push through damage like we want to.

Gideon has been alright in the few games I have drawn him, but overall he feels very clunky in the deck. He may end up getting the axe for the 4th copy of In Oketra's Name, depending on how things play out going forward.

We shall see.

Another night of playing Orzhov Zombie Tribal on the ladder. Finished up at rank 34 after hitting the gold cap. Not entirely sure why everyone seems to think that aggro zombies is bad, because it sure seems to be plodding along the ladder just fine (I think I had 2-3 losses the whole night). I will admit, I don't think it is as good as the Rakdos and Gruul aggro decks running around, but I think it is perfectly viable on the ladder, and if nothing else a fun new approach to aggro that I don't mind having around.

Game was finally nice enough to give me the last Binding Mummy and another Lord of the Accursed, so no more clunky Mastery and down to only 1 Thalia (hope the game gives me the last lord soon). Not caring so much about the final copy of In Oketra's Name I am missing. I think 3 is the correct number, even with the low cost.

Still haven't gotten any copies at all of Time to Reflect which makes me sad, as I really want to start testing with it, I feel the build could use another removal spell, and depending on how things work out I may run a 2/2/2 split with Push/Dec/Time and make room by cutting Gideon (sounds silly, but can be super clunky here).

More fudging with the land, just a slight shift of the basics, since I often found myself short more often than I was short .

Will probably play this again tomorrow night, which should easily put me at rank 40 and about 90% of the set done. I will probably move on to screwing around with Golgari -1/-1 counters next, since it seems like everyone and their mothers have Rakdos, Gruul, and Simic pretty much covered already >.>

Edit: Depending on how the wife is feeling tomorrow night I may stream a few games of me playing this. Just to give people a feel of what the deck can do.

Doesn't work, sorry... the deck below is fine, but the crats aspects are non-functional.


So here's an alternate take (having tested and disliked Esper):

How about some Zombie Crats

Main Deck (60)
Creatures (26)
2 x Cryptbreaker
2 x Dread Wanderer
3 x Wayward Servant
4 x Binding Mummy
4 x Doomed Dissenter
1 x Bontu the Glorified
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
2 x Plague Belcher
3 x Nantuko Husk
3 x Pious Evangel
1 x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet

Spells (10)
3 x Fatal Push
3 x Time to Reflect
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
2 x Dusk // Dawn
1 x Liliana, Death's Majesty

Lands (24)
1 x Westvale Abbey
2 x Isolated Chapel
2 x Shambling Vent
3 x Aether Hub
7 x Plains
9 x Swamp


I mostly focused on building an Aristocrat Style deck. I want to drain, I want to sacrifice my own creatures, I want to play defensively (hence time to reflect). Basically all the things. The deck is still pretty aggressive, but I think I like this style better than some of the other options - not sure if it's actually a better deck though. Still untested.

If going crats doesn't 100% work, I'll switch the evangels for lords of the Accursed, and then this will still be pretty much my best guess at the optimal zombie build. I'm also totally on board with switching time to reflects out for boring old dec stone, plus a user's choice mythic (for example, Gideon, the should always be played in basically any white deck, Aly of Zendikar).

Zombie Token Spam V2

9 Creatures:
2 x Cryptbreaker
3 x Wayward Servant
3 x Lord of the Accursed
1 x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet

7 Enchantments:
1 x Graf Harvest
2 x Sinister Concoction
2 x Anointed Procession
2 x Liliana's Mastery

3 Artifacts:
2 x Key to the City
1 x Throne of the God-Pharaoh

2 Planeswalkers:
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
1 x Liliana, Death's Majesty

2 Instants:
2 x Time to Reflect

12 Sorceries:
2 x Dark Salvation
4 x Murderous Compulsion
2 x Never // Return
1 x Gisa's Bidding
2 x From Under the Floorboards
1 x Rise from the Tides

25 Land
4 x Plains
1 x Island
7 x Swamp
2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Sunken Hallow
2 x Westvale Abbey
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Isolated Chapel
3 x Evolving Wilds


I feel like I'm getting closer to decent with this version. The deck can do some stupid things with Anointed Procession in play. Some really fun synergies going on (key with Murderous Compulsion, super drain with Wayward + token spam, Cryptbreaker + Throne, etc). I should probably just cut blue but Rise generates so many Zs with Procession in play and it's a ton of damage with Throne. But still trying to iron it out. Endgame is strong but getting there is still little tricky (helped by the Compulsion add, especially at instant speed w/ key). Maybe should run Call the Bloodline and a few more madness spells?

Don't be, I'm cutting out TtRs from my builds...looks good but isn't so much, imo...for example, it doesn't anything against flyers, one of our main weaknesses.

I find myself holding them in my hand half the time...they are good to let your Lords attack, but something that's even narrower than Gideon's Reproach isn't what I want, give some Grasp or Push instead

I finally unlocked a copy of it and got a chance to mess with it some last night. As I said before, I had doubts about it to begin with, just from a tempo perspective with not being able to use it to remove a blocker before combat. It is more of a combat trick than it is removal in a lot of aspects. Although I could see it being useful to help pushing damage through by allowing attacks you may otherwise not be able to make. Push and Dec are definitely better, although I could see maybe running TtR as a 1-of just as insurance against certain annoying creatures.

I had a very meh night last night on the ladder, even though I did manage to unlock the final lord. The combination of connection issues and issues with mana/mulls in the first few games of the night put me on tilt and I just wasn't having it for the rest of the night.

Still working on the idea of the more Aggro list. I have yet to test this, but I intend to screw with this a little tonight.

2 x Cryptbreaker
2 x Dread Wanderer
4 x Festering Mummy
1 x Graf Harvest
3 x Fatal Push

4 x Binding Mummy
3 x Wayward Servant
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
2 x Smuggler's Copter
2 x Key to the City
2 x In Oketra's Name
2 x Declaration in Stone

2 x Plague Belcher
3 x Lord of the Accursed
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
3 x Alms of the Vein

1 x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet

7 x Swamp
7 x Plains
2 x Isolated Chapel
2 x Shambling Vent
1 x Forsaken Sanctuary
2 x Cradle of the Accursed


It just occurred to me today that Alms of the Vein could work with the whole life drain zombie angle.

Alms actually makes me consider Miasmic Mummy as well, since I could easily see going something like T2 Servant, T3 Miasmic+Alms for an 8 point life swing and putting your opponent down a card.

While I am still generally on the aggro plan, I feel like there is definitely something to the life drain + madness angle

Crypbreakers, Keys, Miasmics, Copters...Ifnir is crying in a corner...

I will admit that I have a bit of a hard on for Binding Mummy and as such very much feel the need to try and go aggro, not to mention that the life drain kind of lends itself to trying to go with something faster to try and leverage the life drain into legit reach.

With a more midrange list though, dropping stuff like Binding Mummy and In Oketra's Name, maybe even the Lords, I could definitely see it. Maybe swap in some more of the madness zombie stuff. Stuff like Gisa's Bidding and From Under the Floorboards which I generally consider to be too expensive to be run in the more aggressive lists running lower land totals. Could work with Archfiend pretty well I think.

Are we sure about Dusk/Dawn here? With 3x Lord of the Accursed, our board is often going to be full of 3/3 or higher.

Maybe so, but our entire graveyard is 2 power creatures. It's not like you're required to play the card just because it in your hand. But when you need it, it will be as one-sided as a sweeper can be.

Fair points. Just that if it's sitting in hand, it could be a Gideon or something.

My list at the moment;

2x Cryptbreaker
2x Dread Wanderer
2x Festering Mummy
2x Binding Mummy
3x Wayward Servant
2x Diregraf Colossus (not quite as strong here as he is in a deck with discard/cycling or self-sacrifice, but still pretty solid imo).
2x Plague Belcher
3x Lord of the Accursed
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet

1x Graf Harvest
2x Liliana's Mastery

2x Smuggler's Copter (these are an obvious inclusion but feel cheap & power-gamey.. tempted to cut and go full zombies just for flavour).

Liliana, The Last Hope
Liliana, Death's Majesty

2x Time to Reflect
2x Dark Salvation
2x Grasp of Darkness
2x Never // Return
2x Dusk // Dawn

6x Plains
10x Swamps
2x Isolated Chapel
2x Forsaken Sanctuary
2x Shambling Vent
2x Westvale Abbey

Cards that warrant consideration for inclusion (imo);
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Oketra the True (we pretty frequently have 3 or more creatures)
Anointed Procession (slow but huge effect, especially with Oketra.. but it's probably a different/specific token deck)
Doomed Dissenter (mostly if I gear the deck more towards sacrifice.. Bontu, Nantuko, etc.)

Not hugely fond of Orzhov.. Prefer mono black or Dimir (for evil theme/flavour), but white zombies is what we got given, so...

Well fwiw, I think gideon should (and eventually will) be in the deck. But I'd still want both.

I'm with you on that. I might end up dropping a Copter for him.
Even +1 on his first turn then sac immediately for +1/+1.. Stacked with Lord of the Accursed and Mastery, we have some beefy zombies.. with menace.

Things went considerably better for me tonight. No stupid flood/mulligan problems, so yay.

So here is the more discard oriented aggro build I am screwing with.

Cryptbreaker x2
Dread Wanderer x2
Festering Mummy x3
Graf Harvest x1
Fatal Push x3

Binding Mummy x3
Miasmic Mummy x2
Wayward Servant x3
Scrapheap Scrounger x2
Smuggler's Copter x2
In Oketra's Name x2
Declaration in Stone x2

Plague Belcher x2
Lord of the Accursed x3
Alms of the Vein x3
Liliana, the Last Hope x1

Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet x1
Gisa's Bidding x2

Plains x5
Swamp x6
Shambling Vent x2
Isolated Chapel x2
Evolving Wilds x4
Cradle of the Accursed x2


Honestly not sure if Miasmic Mummy is worth it over Key here, which is what was in their spot before. Key just hasn't really performed for me here like it has in my Rakdos/Dimir Madness decks.

The unblockable aspect really doesn't seem that great here. Outside of Plague Belcher (who has Menace) and maybe Kalitas we aren't likely to have any large single creatures to try and force through, and the prevalence of Menace and tap down effects can make sneaking damage in pretty easy without it. Most of my wins have come from either life drain, or huge alpha strikes.

On the aspect of activating madness, the best things it has going for it are that it is free (unlike Cryptbreaker and Miasmic) and that it can be activated at instant speed (unlike Miasmic, and to a lesser extent Copter).

As always Key can help with flooding, so I definitely consider that as well.

The biggest issue I had with Key here honestly? Most of our early turns we would rather be playing zombies to flood the table, or removal to push damage through. Most of the time we aren't going to want to be dropping it until relatively late in the game, at which point a lot of the time I would have just preferred it to be another threat.

Hence the testing with Miasmic. While he can't function at instant speed like Key can and costs a little more than Key to facilitate Madness he is another threat, which happens to be a zombie, and also forces your opponent to discard.

In testing it has been a little clunky, but some of the stuff has been pretty silly.

T1 Dread Wanderer, T2 Wayward Servant, T3 Miasmic+Alms isn't a bad start at all.

Cryptbreaker+Bidding is pretty silly when you drop three 2/2 tokens on the table at instant speed, especially if you already have one or multiple lords/servants/binding mummies on the table already. Miasmic Mummy can do the same thing at sorcery speed for the same cost, but he also get the added bonus of making your opponent discard a card.

I got lucky enough earlier to go T2 Servant, T3 Servant, T4 Binding Mummy, T5 Miasmic+Bidding....get three 2/2 tokens, do 6 damage, gain 6 life, tap three of the opponents creatures, make opponent discard a card....and SWING.

I like the Miasmics too, above all in the Ifnir version, as already mentioned, lol

Gisa's look underpowered to me, even taking in account the Madness sub-theme.

Binding Mum should be maxed, imho...I'd cut the Gisa's for him and maybe another Festering, or one Anguished Unmaking as catch-all

Why do I ALWAYS forget Key to the City exists? Sorry OT carry on, lol.

Ok, trying to mash these up now. With my token spam list, it had a very strong endgame, but was shakey getting there. With DJ's crats list, I haven't played it but think it looks low on value targets for Husk - however, the Husk/Belcher/flipped-Evangel combo is very attractive.

V1 of the mashup:

2 x Cryptbreaker
3 x Wayward Servant
2 x Nantuko Husk
1 x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
1 x Pious Evangel
2 x Plague Belcher
1 x Bontu the Glorified
1 x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet

1 x Key to the City
1 x Throne of the God-Pharaoh

2 x Anointed Procession

1 x Liliana the Last Hope
1 x Liliana Death's Majesty

2 x Fatal Push

2 x Dark Salvation
2 x Never // Return
2 x Dusk // Dawn
2 x Yahenni's Expertise
2 x Languish
2 x From Under the Floorboards
2 x Rise from the Tides

4 x Plains
1 x Island
7 x Swamp
2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Sunken Hallow
2 x Westvale Abbey
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Isolated Chapel
3 x Evolving Wilds


This version is trying to make it to the lategame by sweeping T4. Any creatures cast T1-3 should be thought of as chump blockers because you want to sweep and if it's not Dusk then they'll die anyways. Dawn will get back all the pieces when we're ready.

AP is a big driver of the endgame, but we don't need to slam it T4 unless opp isn't applying much pressure. We can take our time getting otherwise stabilized and set up. Big AP payoffs are Dark Salvation (cast T5+), From Under the Floorboards, and Rise from the Tides (technically you could count little Lili's ultimate, but if that happens you're going to win either way). Lesser (but still ok) payoffs are Never // Return, big Lili's +1, Cryptbreaker, and Kalitas tokens.

Key allows us to make a jumbo Husk unblockable, cast FUtF for more than , pitch Dusk into GY to Dawn pieces back, and pseudo-cycle stuff we don't need (or prep for a larger RftT).

Throne doubles our drain production with FUtF and RftT. With Throne, Wayward Servant, and AP in play you can deal massive damage casting those spells.

Some quantities I was going back and forth on at the end were 1/2x Key, 2/3x Push, 0/1x Time to Reflect, and 0/1x Kalitas/Bontu. Push is basically just there to deal with Copters/Harvesters that sweepers can't hit. TtR was being considered for emergency God/Gideon control (maybe gets in if that reveals to be a problem). Bontu might not be worth it but ability synergizes with lifedrain plan and 4/6 menace is another way to win so figured it was worth testing. Kalitas dies to 4/6 of our sweepers and can't be Dawned back - but his token production w/ AP in play is strong enough to test (and big Lili can potentially get him back).

Notable absences: Zombie Lords, L's Mastery. Zombie lords aren't the 3 drops I want to be casting here. With Dusk // Dawn it takes away the one sided sweeper. Mastery was a tougher cut because T4 AP, T5 Mastery is nice. But similar issue in that it puts all our **** in harms way for Dusk, and this version isn't trying to win with big zombies (unless it's a Keyed up Husk). My token spam deck had TOO many ways to win if it could make it to endgame (lifedrain, token swarm, buffed menaced zombies, etc), so I nixed the pump effects to focus on lifedrain angle.

Won't be able to test until later, and maybe the whole idea is just a bust - but worth a shot and should make for some fun games at least.

The funny thing is that the things that I cut to make room for the 2x Gisa's Bidding were 1x Festering Mummy and 1x Binding Mummy.

I mostly included them because I figured that I should probably be running more payoff cards to take advantage of the discard we have going on. The problem with that is that in we just don't have a lot, especially if we are trying to keep our curve relatively low.

Gisa's Bidding, Murderous Compulsion, and From Under the Floorboards are what we have access too other than the Alms we are already running.

I would only consider running Compulsion alongside Key (and Cryptbreaker) for the sake of making it an instant. Even then I don't think it is any good considering we are in and have access to removal that is considerably more powerful, cheaper, and more flexible.

From Under the Floorboards is just too expensive for a 21 land deck IMO. Casting it for 5 for 3 tokens and 3 life could definitely happen. That said, I don't see the deck using it for its Madness cost with that little land, especially if we are paying to Cryptbreaker/Miasmic to discard it most of the time.

Which leaves Gisa's Bidding. The Madness cost of 3 is still a little expensive, but I think it works. With a discard outlet, at worst it is two 2/2 tokens for 3 or three 2/2 tokens for 5 (with added discard attached if we used Miasmic) which is on par with From Under the Floorboards. We don't get the extra life from From Under the Floorboards, but they also don't come into play tapped either, which is a benefit. At the very worst with no discard outlet it is still two 2/2 tokens for 4 which the deck can still make happen even with only 21 land.

While I definitely agree that those ratios aren't exactly great, the fact the tokens are zombies is definitely relevant. While paying 3-5 for 2-3 tokens isn't great value, should we have a Wayward Servant, Binding Mummy or Lord of the Accursed out (or In Oketra's Name in hand) it can put in a serious amount of work, especially if we are dropping them in at instant speed with Cryptbreaker (or Key, which I am still not 100% sure if we should be running here or not).

Currently the card I am looking the hardest at in my list is In Oketra's Name. It seems like half the time the card is an absolute blowout and wins games right there on the spot. The other half of the time though it just ends up sitting in my hand waiting for the correct opportunity to play and it just never happens.

@Eon - I put Compulsion in my token spam V2 list and was pretty happy with it. It did help improve V2s chance of making it to the lategame over V1. Keys/Cryptbreaker make it instant speed and good vs basically everything except Always Watching decks. Then if at 4 mana you're getting a zombie token alongside it or having the option to draw a card on your upkeep.

I was thinking of doing more of a madness theme for my token/crats lifedrain mashup and using Gisa's/Alms/Compulsion/FUtF along side Cryptbreaker/Key/Call the Bloodline/Copter - but decided to do the T4 sweeper approach instead.

I am still pretty iffy on Compulsion honestly. Sure, Key makes it instant speed, which is pretty awesome since that also does a decent job of getting around the whole "tapped" requirement (since you can use it when an opponent taps for an attack instead of having to wait until your own turn after you already ate the attack).

Cryptbreaker can make it instant too, but having to pay that extra is a little dodgy to me. Needing untapped to use our removal at instant speed just doesn't seem great to me (even if we do get a free 2/2 token out of the deal). I could see it working out better in the builds you guys have been posting though, which are looking to go longer and play a more grindy game. In the lower curve builds though I am not sure if we can afford to be paying that much for removal, and I don't think we can afford to cut too many more threats to run more removal (since we are already running Push+Dec). Which is part of the reason I went with Gisa's Bidding since it gives us another Madness spell that also contributes to our board position.

Without any discard outlets then it is really bad, sorcery speed AND needing the thing to be tapped is no bueno.

Like I said, I could definitely see it putting in some work in a slower more grindy list that runs more removal though, like the pseudo-crats lists that you guys have been working on.

Maybe if I were to include Key in my list again, although I am still iffy on that as well. Although I do plan on testing out Husk in the lower curve version of the build at some point, and if that works out I could definitely see Key being an even more attractive option than it currently is for those builds (who usually win via life drain or big alpha strikes so unblockable isn't super useful).