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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:38 am 
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Bloodlust Inciter, Hazoret's Monument should be tested

Asylum Visitor and Bloodmad Vampire did not perform well in a meta with Walking Ballista

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:55 am 
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Still on a mission to find Bone Picker a home. Maybe here, I wanted a super low curve so no Hazoret here. Not going for something quite as spikey and defined as Fel's list. I just want to find a home for this damn vulture. :(

Creature(23)
2 x Walking Ballista
2 x Bomat Courier
2 x Dread Wanderer
4 x Insolent Neonate
3 x Inventor's Apprentice
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
3 x Bloodrage Brawler
2 x Weldfast Engineer
3 x Bone Picker


Instant(10)
3 x Fatal Push
4 x Fiery Temper
3 x Unlicensed Disintegration


Split(2)
2x Cut // Ribbons

Artifact(3)
2 x Smuggler's Copter
1 x Heart of Kiran


Land(22)
2 x Smoldering Marsh
4 x Swamp
7 x Mountain
2 x Dragonskull Summit
4 x Cinder Barrens
3 x Aether Hub

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:24 am 
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Still on a mission to find Bone Picker a home. Maybe here, I wanted a super low curve so no Hazoret here. Not going for something quite as spikey and defined as Fel's list. I just want to find a home for this damn vulture. :(

Creature(23)
2 x Walking Ballista
2 x Bomat Courier
2 x Dread Wanderer
4 x Insolent Neonate
3 x Inventor's Apprentice
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
3 x Bloodrage Brawler
2 x Weldfast Engineer
3 x Bone Picker


Instant(10)
3 x Fatal Push
4 x Fiery Temper
3 x Unlicensed Disintegration


Split(2)
2x Cut // Ribbons

Artifact(3)
2 x Smuggler's Copter
1 x Heart of Kiran


Land(22)
2 x Smoldering Marsh
4 x Swamp
7 x Mountain
2 x Dragonskull Summit
4 x Cinder Barrens
3 x Aether Hub



That looks a lot better than my first draft of Rakdos Picker. There's only a few changes I'd make to the maindeck:

In:
2 x Key to the City
3 x Flameblade Adept

Out:
2 x Dread Wanderer
2 x Cut // Ribbons
1 x Swamp


With a curve as low as yours, I think going down to 21 lands is very possible.
Cut is your deck's weakest removal spell, and your deck isn't well suited to cast Ribbons (double-black is problematic, you probably don't want more than 4-5 lands in play)
Casting Dread Wanderer turn 1 seems tough given your lack of untapped Black sources (7 is not many). Cutting them means you can shift your manabase to accomodate for an untapped Red source turn 1 a lot better.

Other cards the deck might consider if certain cards don't work out are Pia Nalaar and Insult // Injury.

For your manabase, I think Evolving Wilds is better than Cinder Barrens as the basics help you to get your other lands into play untapped easier (Dragonskull Summit, Smoldering Marsh) and it thins your deck (Minor arguments, but still worth looking into I think). Also, if you implement the changes I suggested, I'd cut another Swamp for a Mountain.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:29 am 
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So something more like this? You're right on Ribbons, that's another deck for another day.

Creature(24)
2 x Walking Ballista
2 x Bomat Courier
3 x Flameblade Adept
4 x Insolent Neonate
3 x Inventor's Apprentice
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
3 x Bloodrage Brawler
2 x Weldfast Engineer
3 x Bone Picker


Instant(10)
3 x Fatal Push
4 x Fiery Temper
3 x Unlicensed Disintegration


Artifact(5)
2 x Smuggler's Copter
1 x Heart of Kiran
2 x Key to the City


Land(21)
2 x Smoldering Marsh
3 x Swamp
7 x Mountain
2 x Dragonskull Summit
4 x Evolving Wilds
3 x Aether Hub

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Last edited by BounceBurnBuff on Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:13 am 
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As written, I'd probably go 2 Swamp 8 Mountain, but yeah; that's what I had in mind.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:31 am 
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I sorta like this. Hazoret still seems worth though.

Further reflection, in addition to Modulo's tweaks :
Considering the deck only plays 13 untapped t1 mana one could potentially replace 2 of the 1 drops for say hazoret and a shock ? Otherwise, going a bit lighter on Evo wilds (like, say play only 2 for more mountains) seems warranted.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:30 am 
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Sorta leaning towards -1 Neonate for the inclusion of Hazoret. Having an artifact for Apprentice out seems like the easier incidental clause to meet with the 1 drops, and at worst Adept will be Neonate with a bigger butt without so much madness in the deck.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:07 am 
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If you really want a cut for Hazo, I'd think cut 1 Weldfast. Honestly though, I think the deck likes topping the curve at 3.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:01 am 
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About bone picker Is he going to work in every game? If opponent is playing aggro, you kill one of his doodz and drop it (best case). Vs control they have to kill one of your doodz on your turn to be able to drop him cheap (might happen but smart players may play around). I am kind of excited about making an enchant prison deck that plays very few creatures. You would have to sac one of your own to get the discount there (worst case).

I guess 90% of the time it should work out.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:09 pm 
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From my experience, it should work out. If Control can't kill something on your board turn 3/4 they're dead anyways.
Also, if - for some reason - you can't cast Picker for B, you can worst case discard him.

BTW, running the list BBB posted with 2 slight tweaks (Insult//Injury over Weldfast Engineer and one more Mountain instead of a Swamp). Early days, but the list seems to have legs.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:16 am 
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Modulo wrote:
From my experience, it should work out. If Control can't kill something on your board turn 3/4 they're dead anyways.
Also, if - for some reason - you can't cast Picker for B, you can worst case discard him.

BTW, running the list BBB posted with 2 slight tweaks (Insult//Injury over Weldfast Engineer and one more Mountain instead of a Swamp). Early days, but the list seems to have legs.

I have had no time to play but sounds promising. Post your experiences with it, I have more to unlock before I can build it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:21 am 
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You guys will have to be my eyes on this one (unlocked: 1 Brawler, 2 Pickers, no Adepts). I'm glad to hear it has legs though, Rakdos has an insane amount of aggro options now. :D

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:20 am 
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If so desired I'll summarize some games this evening.

BTW you should have 3 Adepts - Adept is a starter Box card for AKH.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:31 am 
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Filtering strikes again! :sweat: Thanks Modulo lol.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:35 pm 
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So I went online today with the list I was talking about earlier (BBBs list with 2 Insult // Injury and the extra Mountain). For reference, here it is:

Spoiler


I went 10-3 with the deck; still a small sample size, but I like where the deck is headed, even if it is a bit tricky to figure out and I certainly didn't play it optimally.

Observations:
-The deck is very tricky to pilot; there are multiple ways in which a hand can feel clunky (too many/few lands, Fiery Temper without discard outlets, multiple discard outlets without stuff you want to discard). Very often there is a correct line and finding it is indeed rewarding, but the decisions are non-trivial.
-Bone Picker is good in most match-ups; especially in ones you can afford to use your spot removal on your turn (Killing something with a Madness Temper only to follow it up with a Picker is absolutely brutal). The one matchup I had where it didn't work out was against a Grixis Control deck that managd to get my board clear on its turn (sweepers, a ton of spot removal). (Indeed that game was one of my losses as I didn't have the gas to combat a Tezzeret; though it was close and I had outs until the very end).
Sideboard it out against creature-light decks.
-Unsurprisingly, Scrounger is an absolute monster with the discard potentiall fueling it your weakest creatures from your hand. The other MVP is Key, which allows you to keep some floody hands (I've kept 5 lands, Neonate, Key on the play and was happy).
-Despite the deck running 12 1-drops, it can have functionable hands without a turn 1 play.
-Flameblade Adept performed a bit below my expectations, but is still good enough to warrant inclusion. Probably the 1-drop to cut if you want to up the curve for some reason or want less 1-drops during sideboarding.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Location: Anyway the wind blows
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V2:

Hell is Where the Heart is

2 x Dread Wanderer
3 x Flameblade Adept
1 x Insolent Neonate
2 x Bomat Courier

3 x Olivia's Dragoon
2 x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
3 x Bloodrage Brawler
2 x Lupine Prototype
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
1 x Heart of Kiran
2 x Smuggler's Copter
2 x Key to the City

1 x Olivia, Mobilized for War
4 x Fiery Temper
3 x Unlicensed Disintegration
4 x Alms of the Vein

1 x Hazoret the Fervent
1 x Heart-Piercer Manticore
2 x Bloodhall Priest

6 x Swamp
6 x Mountain
2 x Smoldering Marsh
2 x Dragonskull Summit
3 x Aether Hub


Further testing with V1 had mixed results. Wanted more reach. Flooding out was a death kneel. -2x Naheb, -1x Insolent Neonate, -1x Swamp, -1x Mountain. +1x Karl, +4 Alms of the Vein.

Potential subs: Keep Land 21, run 2x Molten Vortex

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Last edited by The Secret of TIMH on Fri May 05, 2017 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:30 am 
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How is everyone liking Neheb? I've found him to be extremely meh in my testing (granted he only made a few appearances in the limited time he was in the deck).

Like you TIMH I only ran Brawler as my other Minataur which meant that he was often not passing buffs on. He also sucks on curve unless you're Heckbent. And if you're playing him off curve then Priest is just better. Hellion has proved to be far superior in my eyes.

How are you getting on with four :4: drops off 21 land? There are games were I have minor flood on 22 (makes for easy discard choices if no Temper) but the Stainless shuffler would probably screw me and leave me unable to play my 4 drops if I went lower. Balancing mana land counts in this game is such a chore.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:14 am 
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I've only drawn Neheb once and he ate removal right away. Idk how I feel about him yet - just wanted to give him a spin. It didn't feel great to cast him on curve tho. Honestly you're probably right that Hellion is better for the deck.

So far so good with 4 :4: drops. 2 of them I can Key/Copter/Dragoon for :3:, I don't mind pitching Manticore into GY to cycle/loot/Bloodrage - stashing him there in case **** goes sideways to hopefully embalm for lethal fling. Really Hazoret is the only one I'd like to cast on curve. I don't want to go higher than 21 right now (maybe change with more testing). Currently feel like I just need 3 Land to have a reasonable shot at winning, but if I flood out with this type of build I'm fuct - so trying to error on the low side.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:25 am 
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Sjokwaave wrote:
How is everyone liking Neheb? I've found him to be extremely meh in my testing (granted he only made a few appearances in the limited time he was in the deck).


I considered him, but there was nothing I wanted to cut for him. I don't think he's terrible (4/2 first strike making the opponent discard), but the deck I'm running doesn't even run 3-drops except for Insult and Disintegration.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:26 am 
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Sjokwaave wrote:
So here's where I'm at:

Black as Night, Faster than a Shadow

Creature(23)
2x Bomat Courier
2x Dread Wanderer
3x Flameblade Adept
2x Inventor's Apprentice
2x Scrapheap Scrounger
2x Asylum Visitor
3x Bloodrage Brawler
2x Pia Nalaar
2x Lathnu Hellion
1x Olivia, Mobilized for War
1x Bloodhall Priest
1x Hazoret the Fervent

Instant(9)
2x Lightning Axe
4x Fiery Temper
3x Unlicensed Disintegration

Split(1)
1x Insult // Injury

Artifact(5)
2x Smuggler's Copter
1x Heart of Kiran
2x Key to the City

Land(22)
2x Smoldering Marsh
8x Swamp
10x Mountain
2x Dragonskull Summit

Nothing fancy. My only problem with this deck is I don't like the 3 drop options, though in this regard I think Hellion is being overlooked.

I'm also with Haven on Alms; we already have reach and there is nothing I'd cut to fit it in. I'd reconsider if it could hit creatures


Changes that I've made:

-1 Mountain
-1 Swamp
+2 Aether Hub

-2 Asylum Visitor
-1 Pia Nalaar
+2 Olivia's Dragoon
+1 Bloodhall Priest

Mana is a little more flexible. I almost considered Cinder Barrens but tap lands are beyond abhorrent in decks that need to curve and play aggressive. Hell I even tried Hanweir Battlements but it just screws the mana for questionable reward.

Visitor just doesn't pay off often enough and gets chumped. Dragoon is another discard outlet and has evasion; the deck is much the better for them. The second Priest is just for more consistent end game pay off.

I'm thinking I may also go down to a single Axe or maybe none at all. I'm testing a few things in this place and will decide after another play session.

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