Yes, thanks DJ for the support


....wait a second...

Glad to help.

2 x Blossoming Defense

1 x Heart of Kiran
3 x Bloodrage Brawler
3 x Voltaic Brawler
2 x Sylvan Advocate
2 x Duskwatch Recruiter
1 x Fling

3 x Khenra Charioteer
2 x Tireless Tracker
2 x Prowling Serpopard
1 x Rhonas the Indomitable
2 x Insult // Injury

1 x Heart-Piercer Manticore
1 x Hazoret the Fervent
1 x Arlinn Kord
1 x Chandra, Torch of Defiance


2 x Glorybringer
1 x Samut, Voice of Dissent
1 x Nissa, Vital Force
1 x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship

1 x Chandra, Flamecaller

1 x Heaven // Earth

2 x Cinder Glade
2 x Rootbound Crag
4 x Timber Gorge
8 x Forest
9 x Mountain


I think this is where I'll start my testing. I'm not sure about Heaven // Earth or Hazoret the Fervent but interested to see how they play. Not too much longer till the beatdown starts!!

edit: made land changes based on TIMH's logic.

elk

I like that list, with the top end stuff I'm favoring. Idk about the red god tho, in the version I'm going for.

I'm missing some power cards in my list that should be there, and help turn on green god. So much vehicle fatigue I didn't want to think of them brainstorming, but Skyship and Heart should be in for sure. Planeswalkers crew Heart, and I'd crew with Voltaics and Charioteers too. Skyship 6 in the air and 3 damage missile to creature is better than 4 on the ground and possible loss of dood.

I also dig the manticores. I really want to try them.

List looks good Elk. I'll be trying it out.

Oh God I'm interested in a Red and Green beatdown deck...I feel wrong.

-snip-

I'm trying to evaluate making the following swap:
-1 Forest
+1 Battlements

Haruto mentions Samut as a reason for including Battlements but he already has Haste. As does the 2 Hellions, as does Hazoret, as does Arlinn's ability.... so do we really need a Battlements?

No, I don't think we do, tbh. Unless we just really feel we can add it with no loss of consistency.

23 Creatures
2 x Sylvan Advocate
1 x Duskwatch Recruiter
3 x Voltaic Brawler
3 x Bloodrage Brawler
3 x Khenra Charioteer
2 x Prowling Sepopard
2 x Tireless Tracker
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Rhonas the Indomitable
2 x Heart-Piercer Manticore
1 x Samut, Voice of Dissent
2 x Glorybringer

4 Planeswalkers
1 x Arlinn Kord
1 x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 x Nissa, Vital Force
1 x Chandra, Flamecaller

2 Artifacts
1 x Heart of Kiran
1 x Skysovereign, Consule Flagship

4 Instants
2 x Harnessed Lightning
2 x Blossoming Defense

2 Sorceries
1 x Insult // Injury
1 x Heaven // Earth

25 Land
2 x Cinder Glade
2 x Rootbound Craig
4 x Timber Gorge
9 x Mountain
8 x Forest


Was a tough call b/w Wilds for Trackers and Timber Gorge for double colors. Thinking getting my 13 double colors cards supported on time is more important than extra clues off 2 Trackers. Plus w/ no T1 plays I'd rather drop a Gorge than crack a Wilds then.

Hubs didn't make the cut as there's not enough energy support to use them more than once and I need my colors. W/o hubs, Harnessed Lightnings a bit less attractive and I might change them out later. In now to answer T2 Copter.

I'm with you on Hazoret the Fervent (and like I mentioned Heaven // Earth). It could easily be any number of cards (Fling/Manticore come to mind or removal/burn etc) but it's a new set and I try to play as many new cards to confirm/deny my suspicions about them. I've been burnt too many times in the past where I assume something about a card and it turns out to be something totally different (usually I think it's unplayable and turns out it's a meta staple). Regardless, the Red God probably isn't going to fit here since there are cards that can gain advantage like Duskwatch, Tracker, Vital Force and Chandra's. It will be a consideration though if you curve out and start with Bloodrage Brawler. Other cases will be a late cast/finisher or pinging with dead draws/flood. It will be a great top deck card too. But who knows, maybe there's more to it or maybe it'll give me an idea of a build to try or scream to be slotted into a previous archetype etc. I can't wait to find out!!



Sweet! Let me know how it goes and any swaps/changes you might make. *cough* Hazoret the Fervent *cough* Excuse me.

And don't feel bad, us players always turn the most devote. You'd think was the darkside but nah, it's .


elk

I'm thinking that's right with the land swaps. Probably best to have our foot to the floor. Good call. Editing my post.


elk

Elk, did you see that I took Durdling Mess to the finals of King of the Hill game one? It was awesome.

Have you thought at all about Rhonas's Monument? I'm torn between really digging that trigger here and worrying taking a turn off to cast it would slow things down more than would be acceptable... drooling over the idea of smashing for an additional +2/+2 trample fairly often (trample even if not drawing/sticking Charioteers). Also since it's a cast trigger and Manticore's an ETB trigger, the creature getting flung should get the buff before sac occurs, right?

In my list I could do something like +2 R's Monument, +1 Recruiter, -2 Harnessed Lightning, -1 Flip Nissa (tho maybe I'd want to get creature count up to 25/+). Maybe it's a terrible idea, but I can't help thinking about it...

Geez thanks bro


Can't hurt to try but I think your concern is valid. It will definitely be taking a turn off and this deck is going to want to keep putting down threats and trying to keep the pressure high. The creatures are all above curve and I think decks are going to have troubles keeping up. Sure there's going to be Fatal Push, Grasp of Darkness and 'big' removal like Unlicensed Disintegration but I think they're going to have to use that stuff on a lot of early threats to try and stabilize making any mid/late play a real problem.
The second concern I see is the cut. I think the majority of cards in the deck are more valuable than the Monument and you'd be hurting the deck more than helping it to swap this in. You mentioned Harnessed in your deck and that could be something to try swapping out but it just seems like there's stronger choices in the long run than running the Monument.

Like I mentioned above, it's a new set so now's the time to try, test and experiment with this stuff. See how it rolls because the ladder will be weak and the meta won't form for a bit. I was intending to make a janky enchant/Cartouche deck (probably - maybe token based and add ) after I try and smooth this list out. Also going to give Simic/Temur ramp a go as well. This is the most forgiving time for us builders so I say go for it and let us know how it goes!


elk

Heh, I already threw together a terrible Bant token deck that uses Trials/Cartouches that I'll be trying too
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=18514

I'll start with the non-monument version of Gruul smackdown first, just to see how good it is. Afterwords I'll test the monument and report back with how much it **** it up

I'm wondering if elemental bonds wouldn't be a bad idea for these Gruul decks. Sure, you take T3 off for it, but with a tweaked creature-base it would be pure gas. Same goes for the red Monument, which I'm gonna test in mono-red. Drop a creature, draw more gas, overpower with big-hitters and card advantage.

The deck feels really strong. I'll have to put in several more games before I start making changes but the shell is right. Just curious how it'll be when the meta stabilizes.

Good times though. Had a few T4 and T5 kills.


elk

Heart of Kiran into Rhonas God, what more do you need Well, a bit later you'd want Arlinn into Glorybringer
I'm testing your build but took out Duskwatch recruiter and 1 Voltaic Brawler for 2 Harsh Mentors and swapped 2 Timber Gorges for Aether Hubs.

Fiery Temper + Lightning Axe is a must IMHO.

My pet card is Incorrigible Youths -- fantastic performer in Rb Vampires.
So I also added Insolent Neonate + Key to the City

I'm actually modifying the build slightly and removing 1 Duskwatch Recruiter but I still think it should be in the 60. It has potential to flip and gain advantage which works well in the build. If you go back several pages, I had mentioned Harsh Mentor for testing (and I will still) but I don't think it's right here. Getting in some pings is good for pressure but the 2/2 body just doesn't cut it. Most of the cards in the deck are above curve and will likely trade up and I think Mentor will sit in hand/ on defense too much to be useful. I would not cut a Voltaic Brawler. The card was too good last set and works really well here. It's absolutely what this deck wants to do.

I'm also making a swap of Hazoret the Fervent. It's a good card and it's fun (and it did get some wins) but there were games where meeting the attack/block condition was a chore. I decided to swap for 2x Bristling Hydra which adds a good body and some additional protection against removal. It also helps support the Voltaic Brawlers too which is why I edited the land to incorporate Aether Hub. As for cutting Timber Gorge, I'm not solid on that idea yet. It was discussed above and TIMH made a good point, There are a lot of double costed cards and we want to make sure our mana can support it; on curve, as best we can. For now, I'm going to keep the 4 copies but I'd be interested to hear how your games go and how often you're hitting your colors on time/curving. I'll keep track of how many times I get jammed and cost myself a turn.



I'm not sure this is the build for what you're thinking. You've basically described foundation pieces to Madness/Vampires of which I'm assuming you played a lot. We're aiming to put down bigger threats and make them force bad trades or we're trading up (or they use their removal on the low end of your curve). The top end of this deck has a lot of mid/late game value, most of which is haste and can close out games. I've added some additional 'removal' support in the Hydra which works with Blossoming Defense to again close out games against removal/control (which compliments Prowling Serpopard). Since you're mentioning removal, the deck can use Fling, Heart-Piercer Manticore, Insult // Injury (which adds to other removal or acts as removal from the grave), Glorybringer, Skysovereign, Consul Flagship, Heaven // Earth and basically all the PW's.




It's funny. I went through the story mode and got blown out by Rhonas and that Monument twice. I still don't like the card for taking the turn off but if it's played as a T5 or T6 play with activation it could be something. Maybe it could replace 1 Khenra Charioteer? The Charioteer is great and I want to see the card so I want the qty high for draw. Even the 2nd one is great since the first is often removed and it's still a 3/3 body. The 3rd copy felt underwhelming though which is why I wonder if it could be a test swap. Still funny though after talking about the card here, I got smashed by it.


Changes:
-1 Duskwatch Recruiter
-1 Hazoret the Fervent
-1 Forest
-2 Mountain
+2 Bristling Hydra
+3 Aether Hub



Revision 1
2 x Blossoming Defense

1 x Heart of Kiran
3 x Bloodrage Brawler
3 x Voltaic Brawler
2 x Sylvan Advocate
1 x Duskwatch Recruiter
1 x Fling

3 x Khenra Charioteer
2 x Tireless Tracker
2 x Prowling Serpopard
1 x Rhonas the Indomitable
2 x Insult // Injury

1 x Heart-Piercer Manticore
2 x Bristling Hydra
1 x Arlinn Kord
1 x Chandra, Torch of Defiance


2 x Glorybringer
1 x Samut, Voice of Dissent
1 x Nissa, Vital Force
1 x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship

1 x Chandra, Flamecaller

1 x Heaven // Earth

2 x Cinder Glade
2 x Rootbound Crag
4 x Timber Gorge
3 x Aether Hub
7 x Forest
7 x Mountain



Thanks to those trying out the deck. As always I'd love to hear your feedback!


elk