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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:29 am 
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I agree with BBB.

Vert, just pretend your playing Disciple of the Ring and holding up 2 mana.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:48 am 
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divinevert wrote:
A 7 drop that AT BEST wins in 4 turns. Not exactly awe-inspiring to begin with.


Well we already run a 6 drop that does about the same.

Actually this is a fair comparison. Lets looks at the pros and cons over Cruel Reality.

Pros:
- Can target specific creatures or PW with his "-X" ability, you gain life based on the value of X.
- Provides card advantage with his +1.
- Ult can put bodies onto the field (although its easily his worst and often wasted ability).
- Costs 1 less mana and isn't hit by enchantment removal.

Cons:
- His "-X" ability is limited to the number of counters he possesses. Whether its a creature or PW, Reality is killing something.
- His "+1" ability varies in damage, and in most Esper builds he is one of only two 6 mana cards, meaning his damage ceiling is tied with Cruel Reality.
- Consistency can't be argued since he can and does hit lands, exactly as Cruel Reality can and will eat threats instead of doing damage. The advantage of reality is you can remove sac fodder, whereas Telling Time is Sorin's only tool to aid his +1. Worst case scenario, Sorin hits a land, whereas Reality kills a token. Both situations suck, but I'd take a dead token over a dead card in my hand.

I'm not advocating replacing Sorin with Reality, the enchantment hate thing pushes it out of favor for me, just a fair comparison to one of the reasons players splash White to go Esper. A lot of arguments I'm seeing against Reality can just as easily be applied to Sorin to some extent (e.g it gets countered). Both are repeatable effects, but the ceiling in a control mirror is consistently higher with Reality than Sorin, who can just land whiff for a few turns.

EDIT: And since I see this as a Control mirror card at best, we'll say its Esper vs Esper. Both eat the same answers. Both eat Unmaking and die, both eat Cast Out and die, both eat counterspells and die. However, Reality does not die to Never // Return, or Gearhulk/Gideon/Disciple swinging. What other card in Esper targets Reality that cannot target Sorin?

The biggest difference between Cruel Reality and cards like Sorin or Disciple is the possibility to actually choose and control by yourself. Disciple is a wincon that let you control literally everything, Sorin let you draw cards while dealing damage or kill something while gaining life. Cruel? Make opponent sac something not by your choice, easier to remove compared to the other 2 cards and it has more chances to be stuck in your hand. Disciple and Sorin down, with the possibility to protect them for the first turn, are 90% gg, idk about cruel but i feel something like 50%.

My approach with Cruel Reality is to try it in the first 2 weeks of Amonkhet, that for me are the janky weeks. But i would not consider it as wincon for control as i never considered ulamog for it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:52 am 
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Never compared it to Disciple, which is miles better than Reality. This was a comparison to Sorin, which as I've shown is more than fair.

EDIT: Control vs Control, Reality seems like a better card since it has a few less responses that hit it from your opponent. Every answer you come up with for Reality in that matchup applies to Sorin, the reverse is not true. Against Midrange its usable but more vulnerable to Green's hate, against aggro it is unusable.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:21 am 
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Cruel Reality is so bad agaisnt tokens.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:41 am 
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I can see it maybe being a sideboard card.

Other than that, my first instinct would be to try it out in some kind of ramp-control hybrid with tutors. Not too optimistic about that though.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:09 am 
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To its credit it would be sick if we could use multiple copies and curse of echoes.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:04 am 
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Best target for insidious will ever?

Those other win cons can only be countered, this one can be redirected...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:28 am 
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divinevert wrote:
A 7 drop that AT BEST wins in 4 turns. Not exactly awe-inspiring to begin with.


Well we already run a 6 drop that does about the same.

Actually this is a fair comparison. Lets looks at the pros and cons over Cruel Reality.

Pros:
- Can target specific creatures or PW with his "-X" ability, you gain life based on the value of X.
- Provides card advantage with his +1.
- Ult can put bodies onto the field (although its easily his worst and often wasted ability).
- Costs 1 less mana and isn't hit by enchantment removal.

Cons:
- His "-X" ability is limited to the number of counters he possesses. Whether its a creature or PW, Reality is killing something.
- His "+1" ability varies in damage, and in most Esper builds he is one of only two 6 mana cards, meaning his damage ceiling is tied with Cruel Reality.
- Consistency can't be argued since he can and does hit lands, exactly as Cruel Reality can and will eat threats instead of doing damage. The advantage of reality is you can remove sac fodder, whereas Telling Time is Sorin's only tool to aid his +1. Worst case scenario, Sorin hits a land, whereas Reality kills a token. Both situations suck, but I'd take a dead token over a dead card in my hand.

I'm not advocating replacing Sorin with Reality, the enchantment hate thing pushes it out of favor for me, just a fair comparison to one of the reasons players splash White to go Esper. A lot of arguments I'm seeing against Reality can just as easily be applied to Sorin to some extent (e.g it gets countered). Both are repeatable effects, but the ceiling in a control mirror is consistently higher with Reality than Sorin, who can just land whiff for a few turns.

EDIT: And since I see this as a Control mirror card at best, we'll say its Esper vs Esper. Both eat the same answers. Both eat Unmaking and die, both eat Cast Out and die, both eat counterspells and die. However, Reality does not die to Never // Return, or Gearhulk/Gideon/Disciple swinging. What other card in Esper targets Reality that cannot target Sorin?



Did you just compare Cruel Reality to Sorin?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:45 am 
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Observent.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am 
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Why this thread has 2 pages? The card sucks.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:59 am 
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felbatista wrote:
Why this thread has 2 pages? The card sucks.


Because people refuse to listen to me.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:10 pm 
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divinevert wrote:
felbatista wrote:
Why this thread has 2 pages? The card sucks.


Because people refuse to listen to me.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:17 pm 
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I think the real talking point about this card is in the art, how the **** are those 2 guys holding back a 5/5 indestructible protection from all damage? - Cruel Reality - Gideon clearly must've hated the guy and is just pretending to care because there's no way anyone is stopping him if he puts in even 10% effort haha

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:44 pm 
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I think the real talking point about this card is in the art, how the **** are those 2 guys holding back a 5/5 indestructible protection from all damage? - Cruel Reality - Gideon clearly must've hated the guy and is just pretending to care because there's no way anyone is stopping him if he puts in even 10% effort haha

They're chump blocking?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:47 pm 
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Psychatog wrote:
I think the real talking point about this card is in the art, how the **** are those 2 guys holding back a 5/5 indestructible protection from all damage? - Cruel Reality - Gideon clearly must've hated the guy and is just pretending to care because there's no way anyone is stopping him if he puts in even 10% effort haha

They're chump blocking?

Well then they're clearly misplayed, why double block a gideon? - CASUALS

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Psychatog wrote:
I think the real talking point about this card is in the art, how the **** are those 2 guys holding back a 5/5 indestructible protection from all damage? - Cruel Reality - Gideon clearly must've hated the guy and is just pretending to care because there's no way anyone is stopping him if he puts in even 10% effort haha

They're chump blocking?

Well then they're clearly misplayed, why double block a gideon? - CASUALS

Maybe he has menace?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:52 pm 
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