I understand why they changed the Onakke from trolls to ogres.

There's more precedent for artifice in red, and they're trying to make it a bigger slice of red's current pie.
All well and good, but trolls are cool, and a green race built around artifice would have stood out more.

Ah well.

Nothing to argue about there. Don't get me wrong, I understand why they did it, and I'm not overly upset about it, but the Onakke being trolls was like 50% of the information we had about them for quite a while. That said, I think they would have worked best in black, flavourwise, regardless of their race. But I guess Shandalar in particular is all about a clear cut and straightforward colour pie, so ogres have to be red, trolls green, and black or green artefact shenanigans aren't a thing...

Hey, everyone. I've just dropped in to say that I've deleted some content from this thread. After having read through the discussion, I just want to remind everyone to be civil with one another and always remember to address the arguments themselves rather than the people making the arguments. This both avoids the ad hominem fallacy and helps create a welcoming environment for all.

Thanks.

GobO_Gadget

Anyway, on topic:

I think that the further away we move from Origins, the fewer retcons we will face, until they decide to revist a plane like Kamigawa (I sense tons of retcons when that happens)

Thankfully, I don't expect a ton of opportunities once we go to each Jacetice League member's plane of preference so they can do their own establishing of their new story.

Chandra will return to Kaladesh, Jace will return to Vrynn, Gideon will go to Bant, and Nissa will be forgotten forever since we already did her return (hopefully)
Creative will shove as much retconning into these stories as they can, so that they can avoid doing it later on.

I hope.

NOW, tell me of RETCONS! Did they ever explain Karona's trip with Karn?

The Videnthian theory? Pshaw!

By that merit, I'd expect Gideon to return to Theros rather than Bant, though. On the other hand, we just got Liliana on Innistrad and I don't really expect a visit to Dominaria anytime soon, so who knows. Actually I really hope Gideon will show up on Bant rather than Theros, partly because I'm really interested in returning to Alara anyway and partly because Gideon's Theros trip would be entirely based on retcons. Seriously, the moment they drag Hixus, Kytheon's Irregulars and his beef with Heliod in there, I'll be out of the block. I've already had more Magic Origins than I can take. Going to Alara instead would allow them to tell a new story without retcons, and we could even see Ajani again (okay, I guess we could have that on Theros, too, but I really want him to go Naya coloured for one set). Ajani is basically the one planeswalker that would make most sense as a new member of the Gatewatch and that I'd really like to join them. His colour identity being quite flexible might even help future appreances of the Gatewatch fom a design standpoint.

Not sure about the Karona/Karn thing, but my guess is that it was either just another bogus encounter that really "happened" for Karona and her companions but didn't involve the real Karn (like when they "met" Yawgmoth, Teferi etc.) or that it was outright retconned into oblivion. They already retconned the part that led into Mirrodin (with Karn and Jeska leaving the oil on Argentum together with Memnarch) when Scars block came along, so it's already kinda fuzzy. I can't really remember whether there was any official statement from Brady concerning that part.

Well thankfully, I'm pretty sure Hixus and the Irregulars are all dead. And Gideon is assumed dead with his group.

And yeah, I'm expecting Ajani to join the Gatewatch once we return to Theros (because he's definitely going to be stuck in a time bubble where nothing happens but him working with the Leonin there, and trying to save Elspeth)

Updated the list in the light of today's story before taking a long break from all of this.

Updated the list to accommodate the retcon established in 'Burn'.

I'm on my phone and super busy, but I popped in to add today's sneaky edit to the list. Heck, I haven't even read the story yet, but retcons are my Bat signal.

Pavos, just a suggestion, since you do not have the first post and your list is on the 6th post (?)(hence you cannot edit it) why not put the Retcon you found on your post? Under a Spoiler tag or what not... so that it could be more easier to see.

And also, what do you think of putting the month (not the exact date) on each? Sorta like this:

That's actually a pretty good idea, it'll make it easier for people to keep track in the long run. I'll do that going forward


Not sure how we'd be handling the date thing, though. I agree more clarity and a sense of chronology would be good, but are you thinking of using the month in which something is/was put on the list or the month in which the retcon appeared in the source material? I mean, it would probably be one and the same now that we're trying to keep track of retcons in real time so to speak, but it would make a difference with the older items on the list. I think we should probably discuss what to do with Test of Metal some time for example. Then again, the month in which they were published/changed could probably be reconstructed for most of them, and it would be nice to have that sort of chronology, so maybe I/we could tackle it that way. A good first step in that direction would be to be more precise and give the exact source of the retcon, which I already started doing with the last few ones. I'll definitely have a look at the whole thing again and try to figure out how to improve it and make it more precise (like adding more sources for example), but right now I'm busy preparing for the final exam in one of my main subjects (which is why it took me forever to respond to your post, sorry about that). Maybe I can do some work on it at the end of this month when I have a little bit more time to breathe again. I like that this pet project is getting more serious! I'm also keen on hearing anyone's suggestions, both concerning the clarity of the list and more retcons that we haven't got covered yet.

Test of metal suffered a death of a thousand cuts, but the first and biggest retcon it made was to itself since the ending erased all the events anyways.
Then it was just a matter of each detail about the book being singularly addressed until it effectively erased all traces of it.

Which is probably for the best.

Generally, just something like that in each new entry. Much more clearer me thinks, and not overwhelming for a new follower of the stories.

The older ones (or really OLD ones) can be done bit by bit, or not at all. It'd be nice to focus more on the current ones... this is the new era of storytelling afterall.

Like, I know one can see the post dates or what not but I think it would be handy in the long run if ever you have to back it up in some way.

Honestly, it may be better to log this stuff in a new thread, where relevant information can be in detailed in the first post and various discussions can take place later. Having to remember that your list is several posts down is annoying.

I've been thinking the same thing actually. So it is done!

Do you guys think it would make sense to ask a mod to sticky the new thread? It's going to be necro'd on a semi-regular basis anyway, and having to look for it every time you want to check it kinda defeats the purpose of making a new thread for easier reference.

As I said, I'll try to do some work on the list in the new thread when I have the time to track down more sources etc.

I'd rather it not be sticky.

Yeah, personally I don't really see a need for it to be. And if it's going to be updated semi-regularly anyway, there's even less of a reason to sticky it.

Did anyone mention the guilds of Ravnica before RtR, but after Dissension.

I remember among other things, Boros became mercenaries for hire, Seleysnia was almost wiped out, ect. Can't remember what novel that is from.