So I figured I may as well create a thread to discuss this now, since it is definitely something being pushed in the set. I know a lot of people, myself included, are looking forward to seeing what we can do with Orzhov Zombies.
We still don't know which cards we will be getting and which cards we won't yet, so at this point a lot of the discussion is going to be speculative, but I feel it is still worth having and there is still a lot of things to consider before we get to that point.
So I will start by listing the cards that I think have the most potential for this particular archetype, and how many of them we could be getting based on rarity. Remember that this is still a tentative list, as Stainless may just decide to not give us some of these cards, at which point I can come back and update to reflect what we actually get.
So then.
Dread Wanderer (Rare, 2 copies) - The best of the new 1 drop zombies. 2 power 1 drop is exactly what an aggressive tribal deck wants and the recursion ability makes it potentially difficult to get rid of permanently. Also gives us another card we can dump to Cryptbreaker, kill off and bring back to stick a Plague Belcher or repeatedly trigger the life drain effects on Wayward Servant and Plague Belcher.
Festering Mummy (Common, 4 copies) - While 1/1 stats definitely aren't great, being another cheap zombie to dump out early is definitely relevant for big alpha strikes with Lord of the Accursed and In Oketra's Name. The -1/-1 counter has the potential to make combat math even more of a nightmare combined with all the other effects available (tap effects, life drain, and menace). It is also another creature we don't mind killing off to stick a Plague Belcher and/or trigger life drain.
Fan Bearer (Common, 4 copies) - Another zombie without great stats at 1/2, but is again another cheap zombie to drop on the table to facilitate those alpha strikes or trigger life drain. It's activated ability is a bit expensive, but it is yet another way to mess with combat, which is something this deck seems to be able to double down on doing.
Time to Reflect (Uncommon, 3 copies) - Shouldn't have to say much about this, Zombies to Plowshares. May be a little difficult to set up, but this is permanent removal against basically every creature in the format for
Wayward Servant (Uncommon, 3 copies) - A serviceable 2 drop for Zombie tribal. The life drain effect is likely to be a little slow, but will likely still be relevant, especially if you run a large quantity of cheap zombies to trigger it multiple times per turn.
Binding Mummy (Common, 4 copies) - Another 2 drop for us. I personally think this one is better than Wayward Servant. This card has the potential to make combat math a complete nightmare, especially if you are run a large quantity of cheap zombies.
In Oketra's Name (Common, 4 copies) - Cheap alpha strike. Combine with Lord of the Accursed and/or a large amount of cheap zombies to finish games. Yet another card that can screw with combat math.
Lord of the Accursed (Uncommon, 3 copies) - Zombie lord. Shouldn't need to say much more here.
Plague Belcher (Rare, 2 copies) - Zombie with a fat body and evasion for cheap. Helps to push the life drain angle. Having to kill one of our own creatures to get it on the table could be annoying, but with a lot of cheap zombies that we don't mind killing off (Festering Mummy and Dread Wanderer in particular) that may not be much of an issue.
These are the cards that I consider to be the most important for us to get to make this really work the way it should. I have left out some of the more derpy zombie tribal cards from the set we may get (like the 5cmc anthem) because I don't think that is the way this deck wants to go. Although that shouldn't dissuade anyone from discussion those cards (or alternate takes on the the deck) here.
Personally I feel like going as low to the ground as possible is the best bet for the deck. The more cheap zombies we can run the better we can facilitate the life drain angle, the tap down angle, and generate potentially huge tempo swings with the Lords and In Oketra's Name.
The biggest question I now have in my head is how much land the deck should run, as I could easily see a build with a metric ton of 1 cmc spells that runs 22 (or less) land.
So assuming we get everything, here is my initial take (in spoilers, as to not make this post any larger than it already is).
If we get everything we need; I plan to up the curve to 5 so that I can play both Lilianas; more of a Midrange build than something Aggro related.
Even if the low to the ground Aggro route seems to work well and be effective I will probably still build a second version of the deck just to screw with some other stuff.
The chance to make flip Lili actually do something worthwhile is appealing to me, and I feel like Plague Belcher, Dread Wanderer, Doomed Dissenter, and Festering Mummy all jive pretty well with her and her buddy Fleshbag. Embalm isn't the worst with her either.
I feel like there are a decent number of ways we can attempt to go with this, especially if we want to try and get into the territory of splashing and going Esper.
Joined: Jul 11, 2015 Posts: 1082 Location: Somewhere in Time
Instants (10) 3 x Fatal Push 3 x Time to Reflect 4 x In Oketra's Name
Planeswalkers (3) 1 x Liliana, the Last Hope 1 x Gideon of the Trials 1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Artifacts (2) 2 x Smuggler's Copter
Creatures (22) 2 x Crypt Breaker 2 x Dread Wanderer 3 x Fan Bearer 3 x Wayward Servant 4 x Binding Mummy 3 x Lord of the Accursed 2 x Plague Belcher 2 x Diregraf Colossus 1 x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet 1 x Archangel Avacyn
Land (23) 2 x Shambling Vent 2 x Westvale Abbey 2 x Isolated Chapel 9 x Swamp 8 x Plains
Just a rough draft, going a little bigger with the aggressive walkers etc (but still fairly low to the ground) to have better legs late. I'm probably looking at cutting a copy of In Oketra's Name and something else for card draw.
Is Cradle of the Accursed worth a slot for something to do later in the game? Is Always Watching a consideration? We have anthems already, but can you really ever have enough anthems?
Joined: Nov 09, 2013 Posts: 1648 Location: Wroclaw, Poland
Well, zombies are back. Instant speed removal and revival in one might make a comeback. Especially if fleshbag nets you additional value when etb with blinding mummy, plague belcher or wayward servant.
Joined: Jul 11, 2015 Posts: 1082 Location: Somewhere in Time
Cards that have been mentioned are for more recursion based game plans or raise the curve for minimal gain; this is pure field spam to overwhelm with value/lords/ION. Splashing blue is also for the more graveyard focused builds I think, that can go bigger and thus better accommodate the required mana base.
It looks like there will be a number of builds for zombies; it will be interesting to see which turns out best. Aggro strats like this, or the more resilient recursion based esper build or something else entirely.
Joined: Nov 09, 2013 Posts: 1648 Location: Wroclaw, Poland
You still should consider Liliana's Mastery (if we get it) even for aggro strats. 2 x3/3 zombies on etb +etb effects and +1/+1 for all zombies is insane value.
Joined: Mar 18, 2016 Posts: 5364 Location: Anyway the wind blows
Identity: doesnt really matter
Preferred Pronoun Set: to me
Man I hate that these aren't in the gatherer yet. So annoying during spoiler season - idk all the names yet and the links don't help, lol
I'm going to wait till we know what Duels gets before I brew this. Several ways it could go, and card pool will steer my direction. If we get all of them, I'll prob try more midrange with new Lili and Mastery at the top of my curve. Dedicated aggro may win more but I'm very attracted to those high end cards.
From a fun perspective, I'll prob try a token heavy version 1st if we get the white enchantment that doubles token production. I'm sure it won't be the highest tier version we can make, but man I think it would be hella fun.
Cards that have been mentioned are for more recursion based game plans or raise the curve for minimal gain; this is pure field spam to overwhelm with value/lords/ION. Splashing blue is also for the more graveyard focused builds I think, that can go bigger and thus better accommodate the required mana base.
It looks like there will be a number of builds for zombies; it will be interesting to see which turns out best. Aggro strats like this, or the more resilient recursion based esper build or something else entirely.
Assuming we get all the goodies, I still think a more aggressive lower curve build is the correct call (maybe not as low as my first rough draft though).
The majority of the new zombie goodies we may be getting are ones that really jive well with the idea of flooding the board with cheap stuff.
The more cheap stuff we run the more often we can trigger Wayward Servant to help put an opponent within alpha strike range, and the more often we can trigger Binding Mummy to force those alpha strikes through, all while working to set up said alpha strike by flooding the board.
Even beyond the new lord, In Oketra's Name is potentially enough on it's own to go this route, as it has the potential to be one hell of an alpha strike for stupid cheap. I am also sort of iffy on the number of this card to run myself. Normally I would only run this sort of effect as a 3 of, since we generally want to see one as often as possible without drawing into multiples. The fact it only costs though kind of makes me feel not so bad about drawing into multiples of them.
Even something as silly as dropping nothing but 1 drops turns 1-3 and then alpha striking on T4 with In Oketra's Name x2 could potentially be enough to close out games.
You still should consider Liliana's Mastery (if we get it) even for aggro strats. 2 x3/3 zombies on etb +etb effects and +1/+1 for all zombies is insane value.
I still think it is a little too slow and derpy to be included in the low to the ground aggro builds. I could see it maybe working in a more Midrange type of build that spends early turns using removal and stuff like Fleshbag/Kalitas to slow things down until you can drop it and just take over.
I now also want to screw around with an ultraderp Esper zombie build that just runs a metric ton of good removal, Lili's Mastery and Rise from the Tides, just because you know, ZOMBIES!
I am really interested to see how this set shakes up the meta. Outside of Zombies (which could potentially end up as Aggro, Midrange, or even fringe Control), Simic Ramp seems to be getting pushed pretty hard. Seems like a ton of decks could be getting new tools with this set. Tutelage and Fog decks, Bant Flicker/Humans, Naya Zoo/Humans, Golgari Rock, RDW, and Madness could all be getting a hefty bump depending on what we get. There is a decent chance that Control will get at least a decent number of tools that make them more attractive as well.
Add to this that this set contains a pretty good amount of either good or acceptable hate (much of which has cycle), much of which also does a good job of disrupting Vehicles.
I feel like this set has the potential to be a pretty big shakeup for the meta.
I'm not going to think about this too much until we find out if we're getting Time to Reflect, which basically makes or breaks the deck, imo. But if do, team zombie!
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and going Esper.
