I think the best removal in this format is either Unlicensed Disintegration, Thopter Arrest or Skywhaler's Shot. I think any deck that is viable in this format has to incorporate those colors. But then when I am playing my white removals, I can't decide between Thopter Arrest or Skywhaler's Shot. Which one do you think is better?

The one that says 'instant.'

I don't think one can be said to be better than the other but rather have advantages and disadvantages that should be considered when choosing to put them in your deck.

Thopter Arrest can exile uncrewed vehicles, for example (or even a Dynavolt Tower or something like that). It can target creatures with power 3 or less (many cases where this can be relevant). It removes creatures that are indestructible like Ulamog. It's a permanent that can be returned by Nissa, Vital Force or Emeria Shepherd, found by Vessel of Nascency or Ajani Unyielding - more cases where this is important can be imagined. It has enchantment synergies if you're building around that, or can provide an exiled card for Ingest strategies (god bless you if that is what you're up to). But because it's a permanent and an enchantment, it can be destroyed by disenchant effects or cards like Anguished Unmaking. This is a pretty huge downside! It means that it isn't reliably permanent removal. It's also sorcery speed, which is another significant downside.

Skywhaler's Shot has a restriction in that it cannot hit creatures with power 3 or less. What if you want to kill a Glint-Sleeve Siphoner, Winding Constrictor with no counters, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Hanweir Garrison...I mean, there are loads of relevant misses here. So you have keep that in mind when including it in your removal suite (having Fatal Push alongside the Skywhaler's Shot covers the bases nicely). It doesn't benefit from the permanent synergies that Thopter Arrest does, but there are loads of instant and sorcery synergies for it (Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Dynavolt Tower, Torrential Gearhulk, etc.). It's an instant which means you can pass turn with in in a control deck which is really beneficial for draw-go strategies. And importantly its generally a more reliable source of removal because it can't be blown up at any time. However, the fact it sends a creature to the graveyard which could be recurred could be a downside versus the exile.

As you can see, it's pretty complex as to which card is better because both excel each other in different situations. I think you need to consider your entire removal suite as a whole and what kind of deck you are playing (Counter Control or Enchantment Midrange) when deciding between them.

Very nice analysis. To sum up which is better: It is dependent on what type of deck you are running... instant speed or tap out? Do you want the target in the gy or exile that can be reversed by enchant hate? Do you want a scry or more flexible targeting (power >2 creature vs any creature or artifact)? As mentioned one is an Instant that can be targeted by cards like giestblast/pieces of the puzzle the other can be targeted by Ajani / Vessel of Nascency.

I don't think there is an easy answer to what is better.

It's certainly more complicated than which one is an instant.

Lol just realized that smuggler copter might be the only card that we have and standard doesn't have that you'd be happy to target with either, excluding things that are most likely unplayable.

Edic: checkig now:
oh right, exiling something enchanted by angelic destiny is good too.

Consul lieutenant needs to take an hit before you can shot it and cost less than arrest.

Daring river marshal might be an exception, but is not really that playable and is still just 2 mana.

White orchid knight... I don't think I need to explain this one.

kytheon, trading way up, but I guess sometime arrest is the best you can do.

kytheon irregulars is still played and a reasonable target, maybe, but you don't really see them around that often.

topan free blade needs to hit you before being eligible by shot and costs less than arrest.

I guess some people play vryn wingmare? You are still trading up in mana, however.

Disciple of the ring is another card that is sometime played, still 3 mana to remove her is not that hot due to her defense mechanism.

Jace still trades up, and an instant speed bounce can allow them to flip it if they wish.

whirlwind rogue... well, talk about inefficient.



Bloodflow Connoisseur a good target.

gildleaf winnover, not the worst target, but it is still painful.

fleshbag marauder, thus is also interesting to remove with it's trigger on the stack, the counterpart to angelic destiny, i guess.

Lili: do people still play her? depending on the opponent board thopter arrest might be effective or completely worthless, and if someone is playing her as something else than a less mana intensive gifted aetherborn they will probably have something to make arrest not that good.

nankuto husk, see connoisseur, note that you won't exile it unless they want too, so arrest is basically a worse murder vs. it tho.


necromancer invocation, good target.

Abbot, not the most terrible thing to shot, leaving the mana up only for them to develop the board instead of pumping it might be painful and it might still give hem some value.

The red 2 mana auras: good targets.

Mage ring Bully, not the worst target skywhaler is a bit awkward for the same reasons it is vs. abbot.


pia and kilar, ouch.

thopter engineer not that hot of a trade.

conclave naturalist, most of the value is not in the creature, but sure, why aren't they running sage tho.

outland colossus: good target.

gaea's revenge ...

nissa, well, I guess it's not the worst target, be careful about them blowing you out with a reclamation sage lather tho.

reclamation sage, not really sure that this one is a removal magnet.

Woodland bellower not the worst target, probably means they have a reclamation sage in their deck however so take that into account before arresting it.

UG krasis will still hurt, but when you need to remove a 3/3 on turn 3, you need to remove a 3/3 on turn 3.

chief of the foundry, exiling him seems ok, just be careful about midcombat blowouts if they run instant speed answer to arrest.

Alchemist vial is a terrible target, and I hope you don't end up in a situation where you need to arrest the tokens from the foundry.


SO arrest has some good targets, but skywhaler shot seems really situational vs. origin cards.

I'll go ahead and say Anguished Unmaking is the clear winner.

OP's asking which one is to be preferred. Obviously the two cards are different, but unless you're doing something like comparing Hero's Downfall to Murder when one card is strictly superior to the other, the two cards will always be different.

I think if you're already in white, Skywhaler's Shot is the better card. Thopter Arrest has one big pro: it can hit artifacts. But if you're in white, you have Fragmentize as a replacement. Against that big pro, Thopter Arrest has the big con of turning on your opponent's enchantment removal. Playing Thopter Arrest and then getting hit by something like Reclamation Sage doesn't actually solve your problem. The other big con is that it's not instant speed.

There are other factors in this of course, such as Skywhaler's not hitting power 0, 1 or 2 creatures (but then how many such creatures are there that you really want to destroy?), and Skywhaler's offering a scry. But I think these are tangential, and the big pro / con are above.

On a side note, I suspect it's possible to Thopter Arrest something, and then use a processor, you can conceivably turn Thopter Arrest into an "exile target creature or artifact" card. Might be something to think about.

It's Skywhaler's Shot for me dawg. If you wanted exile effects, you would just run Declaration in Stone.

i think this is the first of your avatars that I've actually liked

That one he had the other day looked like Sindel from Mortal Kombat. It was pretty hideous.

I was sure that one was a tranny

On Steam, I don't have access to any of the removal this thread is talking about, so my white removal of choice is Gideon's Reproach.

On ios I use Skywhaler's Shot to take out big targets in my Boros deck and I use midsize creatures to overwhelm everything else. Seems to work out okay most of the time. But my ios pool is basically the D cards and some Kaladesh & BFZ.