i never said anything about energy counters. if you read what i said properly you would see that. I am referring to energy as the mana and lands, which is in parentheses right next to it. And that had nothing to do with the vehicles. so you are just taking things out of context and complaining about it.

and you can't compare duels on xbox and ios and such to magic in real life. they are 2 separate things. and cards get banned all the time or restricted in real magic. mainly because there is to big of an effect ont he game as a whole. it happens. and people need to get over it and not always fall back onto "the mechanics" suck.

And i have said it in other threads, not everything made in magic(wheter it is paper or digital) always has 1 on 1 in mind. people do like to play 2 headed giant or planeswalker mode(3 versus 1) and other game styles. So not everything will always have to do with what the current "meta" is. So while people say, oh that card isn't good for 1 on 1, it could be used way better in a different mode.

With ingest, again i never said anything about the meta. i just said in general its not as bad as all make it out to be. Mist Intruder isn't the card i was referring to but still. For 2 mana, you get a 1 power and 2 toughness, flying(which is considered an evasion ability for the most part) and a built in non activated ability that hurts your opponent and not yourself. That's is not bad at all for 2 mana. It's not the best card in the world, but its not the worst by any means. If you are making a "discard" deck its a great fit to the theme.

As for the copter, it is way cheap for what it does, but it does need a creature on the board to even do anything at all. which is reall easy, but if your opponent is play8ing properly, copter still won't be a huge issue. think it was zzmorg(???) that said the cards that kill it super easy anyways, so still not an issue.

People that are complaining are the ones saying black got hosed because of it. pssst(there are other colors to use instead of black). But usually in every set, in real life or digital, things change and people get mad about it all until there see the ways around it. will happen with this to. I usually don't have any trouble dealing with vehicles for the most part.


EDIT: And if you are facing things like vehicles in the meta, its something you have to deal with. Make another deck that helps deal with it and use it. Most people play 2 colors instead of going mono. throw white in it for its artifact removal(won't matter if its a creature or not unlike the black kill spells that only work on creatures) or green for the [/c]Reclamation Sage[/c], blue to bounce the stupid thing back to an opponents hand. There are plenty of ways around it. And speaking from a duels standpoint, its(the copter) a rare? so no more than 2 of them allowed anyways. Way better than 4 being in a deck.

And since it isn't a creature(its an artifact, that can become one) it also can't be brought back from graveyard by anything that targets a creature there. BUt all in all, there are plenty of ways to deal with the vehicles.

That isn't my point. That card was made like that from back on those days for balancing purposes. I had 4 Snuff Out on my old black control deck (1999-2000, can't remember the exact year) and it was just fine even when i wasn't able to kill a black creature.

My point is, what would you prefer nowadays? a 3 mana black instant removal spell? or a 1 mana removal sorcery spell?

Instants are the key now no matter how good the sorcery is, unless you get something extra of course like with Battle at the Bridge, which is good enough even without improvise. In my days i had Corrupt

I would like to have both for different situations(and for the fact it is extra removal). But I even said above, there are other options instead of running black for the removal of the artifacts. Black has almost always been sorcery speed for removal compared to the other colors. Just they way it was designed. Murder does exist here and you can have at least 3 copies in there and its is 3 mana instant that can kill the vehicles one it is crewed, so again, black is still ok. there is also the fact that you have ways of removing the creatures that crew the vehicles just fine at sorcery speed with blackand not to mention you have black and whites Anguished Unmaking which again is 3 mana and is instant and better yet, targets everything but lands.

And considering most people do play 2 colors, none of this is hard to achieve.

This isn't something new nor is it isolated to Duels. Sorcery speed removal has always been worse that's why they give you discounts in mana cost, or a bonus, like the lifegain from Corrupt. It's always either Cheaper, or better-in-another-way when compared to Instants because being Instant speed is a bonus in-and-of itself. And in most cases Instant speed is better than whatever bonus you get from your sorcery, there are outliers like Corrupt or Mutilate (but then most sweepers are sorcery speed).

I don't like vehicles either. It feels like they're just too good. Dodging sorcery-speed removal on its own isn't a big deal, but dodging most (all?) sweepers is. Some vehicles even provide strong haste damage (Fleetwheel Cruiser) or are evasive (Aethersphere Harvester, Smuggler's Copter). I suppose without vehicles it'd be a control heaven, but I'd still rather have somewhat less powerful vehicles around instead.

Everyone keeps saying that sorcery removal is dead, but my Brain in a Jar keeps telling me otherwise.

Admittedly, it's not as effective as just straight instants, but in a pinch, and when your opponent isn't expecting it: BAM! Instant speed Languish! Suck on that, Snuggle Copter.

Uhh, how can you have Brain in the Jar out with four charge counters and your opponents still don't see the instant-speed sweeper incoming? Plus, if you manage to get FOUR charge counters on that card, it's easily turn 6++, which is well past the earliest point when an aggressive vehicle deck can threaten to kill you. Plus, a turn-6 instant-speed answer to a Snuggle Copter that comes down on turn 2 is not ideal at all.

This doesn't kill Avancyn. Anything that can't kill Avancyn is not enough.

That's why i suggested in another reply that they should require energy too. That way would be far more balanced. "Hey, you want to use vehicles? then i guess you must add energy spells too."

EDITED: (damn i forget i have to quote in the same post)



Brain in the jar is too slow! you are dead at turn 6 already, specially against vehicles.

well that's why you have more then one removal, duh

I still use both declarations. I took one out and things did not feel right. I also have access to black and white along with green so I generally match up well against vehicular decks. I have no problem beating them into the ground unless they are very well made and generally go first.

The thing is for me the meta is a little too easy to build around vehicles that are almost too good to be true. I use one vehicle in my entire deck, but it's mostly for speed.

I don't think that vehicles have really changed the meta for Revolt at least. It feels totally the same to me with a few more options. Pretty boring season overall. Ajani is a disappointment for my deck builds. I just did a reworking on my current WBG monster and it's good to go IMO. I have like 1 or 2 cards from Revolt in my deck. Boring.

While vehicles are cool I would like to see a wider variety of cards added from other sets. I would like to see more variety in how people build. People in general are becoming way too reliant on ****, vehicular builds. When they come up against someone built to rip them apart on defense and then pummel them past turn 6 they run into major problems consistently at least.

Not sure how much I will play this meta if I get bored. I may switch colors for once. But I can't say I want to be red at all it's just never been my color. Maybe a blue and black deck IDK. I always feel that blue and black don't quite have the creatures for my liking at least yet.

I've been finding Grixis "Legion of Doom" seems to be working out best for me against Vehicular Manslaughter decks. Lack of counterspells makes the control mirror a chore, but unbugged UD and Intimations have been holding up better against them than I gave credit for (curse you CGB for being right!)

At least Phasing isn't a thing any more.

Don't mana is mana, energy is energy. Shouldn't mix the two wordings up, maybe could've been fine before but now energy is a mechanic it'll cause confusion.

Hey! I won my first Tournament with a Teferi's Veil deck!

Now I haven't played much paper but to my casual mind the only upside to it would be negating sorcery speed removal and sweepers.

That was helpful to dodge Wrath of God, but the core of the deck revolved around Fog Elemental, Breezekeeper and some Air Elementals. An army of 4/4 fliers did wonders. By no means was it a great deck, but it worked at the time. I doubt it would hold up now, even in Duels.

Just a thought, since we saw card swaps to Elves/Myr based on how much they dominated new players. I'm curious as to how starting players are coping with Vehicle decks? Seems more oppressive than a 1/3 with Reach ever did

What removal is in the starter box for them?