On the Green article Peema Aether-Seer isn't doing the pop-up thingy because it needs a dash.

I really like Unbridled Growth. When you don't need the mana-fixing it can just be rotated. Seems like a fair choice to help 3+ color decks get their engines running and getting a card out of it is practically guaranteed since the sacrifice ability has no cost. I think it is also worth consideration for decks that want to dig for particular mythics since it makes your deck functionally smaller. However I think its rating is justified as there are many decks that don't need it and the decks that do will not want many copies.

I would like to see a listing of cards that are better, although I doubt many of them cost .

You're mixing the two

Are you running bad cards to make it work? - DJ
What would you cut (from a current working deck) to fit it in? - Beast

Invoke mine to state that running 4 Bone Saw, just to make Improvise work is probably a mistake. (My original argument was dealing with revolt, which has a similar set of problems).
Invoke beast when you state RG Aggro doesn't have room for this card, or shouldn't make room for this card.

Since WB is non-colored you could for example argue: "would you cut thriving grubs for it?" And then most people would say no... hence, not in RG Aggro (this is not a complete argument, but whatever). - this is Beast if you really care to distinguish them.

For mine, you could say Scrounging Bandar is a pretty awful card, are you really willing to put it in you deck, just because WB is in? and then some would say Winding Constrictor makes it worth it, other would say it doesn't.

Beast's is: the deck ain't broken, so does this card improve it?
Mine is: did you just put a bunch of garbage into the deck, just to support it?

On the subject of WB, I think it's better than you guys are all saying it is. For one thing, it totally hoses any deck with 1 toughness creatures. It's a nice addition to decks that seek sac outlets. And I think it could even be good as a 2 drop in ramp, but we'll see. It's definitely NOT smugglers copter level, but it doesn't require bad card support the way Bastion Inventor does (I love Bastion decks, btw, so don't take this the wrong way).

And for the record, the reason why I care so much about that argument is that as a builder I am one of the worst offenders of my own logic. I constantly add bad cards to decks just to see if I can 'break' a mechanic. I am also constantly wrong. Most don't get posted here, but it happens all the time, so I am extremely sensitive to the concept. It's also the reason I didn't make too much hay about the Improvise hexproof card in the broadcast - B.c. I knew it would require a lot of junk to work, and was expecting blowback. I literally lol'ed when I saw CGB post about it two days later - using a deck full of Bone Saws and goggles - That's a lot of questionable cards included just for a small chance that it all works out to get you a big hex proof creature that could just die right away to a blessed alliance, or get chumped forever, etc...

You guys get way too caught up with hard numbers. Asking what cards are you cutting from aggro/control/whatever is silly when I mentioned in the article that Ballista is not a card you include in your deck because of its power in a vacuum. But once your other cards have synergy with it, it starts to look way better. And I'm not talking about Scrounging Bandar. I'm talking about Winding Constrictor, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Collective Effort, Verdurous Gearhulk, Ridgescale Tusker etc.

Also, and this is very important, the grades have meanings, they aren't just a number used to rank cards. My criteria for 4.0 is that the card is a staple in 2 different and reasonable archetypes (being good in Esper control and in Jeskai control doesn't get you a 4.0, but being good in Esper control and Mill does). I do believe UB Artifacts will be a reasonable deck, and Ballista will be there. I also believe GX +1/+1 counters will be a reasonable deck, and Ballista will be there too. Therefore, Ballista gets a 4.0. That's not to say it's better than all the 3.0s, it's just that it's good enough and has wider applications.



Thanks! It should be fixed now.

I can see him being good in a counter based decks but that's very niche, I don't think he will make the cut in an artifact deck as there are too many better options.

WB is good with revolt, crats, artifacts (Improvise and otherwise), possibly burn, some ramp, delirium, counters, and more. That's a lotta of shells to test him in. I don't think it's an obviously bad card, so it should fit in a couple of those.

I thought we evaluted cards based largely on what they do by themselves relative to their mana cost. I'm pretty sure there was some talk about when a card needs other cards to help do its thing, it's typically not very good. You could be putting those counters on a trampler, flier, vehicle or any other manner of other repeatable effect.. which are likely going to be cards that do strong things on their own.

I think it's a turd, and a trap. Maybe I'll be wrong.. but that's where I'm at with it. 4 mana freakin Ember Hauler, 2 mana Goblin Arsonist, 6 mana Pitchburn Devils. Pfft..

The best argument so far as that it turns on half of delirium, which a TON of other cards do.

Are we really talking about this card?

It seems to have some supporters.

Yeah cause Fel gave it 4 stars, and it ain't no Skysoverign

Well he's not inFelable.. he's still human. We all get stuff wrong.

Lol

Petition to dumpster WB's score down to 2.0!

Also boost Solvent up to 5.0.

If ballista isn't a 4.0 it's not a 2.0 it's a 0.0. I still side with Fel on this one though.

Just answer these two questions: What does it do on its own at any point in the game? What does it do better than a bunch of other goodstuff cards at the 2/4/6 mana spots?

Why put counters on it when you could put them on:
Green: Sylvan Advocate, Bristling Hydra, a bunch of Timmy six drops
Red: Kari Zev, the Phoenix, I got nothing for red at 6 mana
White: 25 different good two drops, Gisella, Linvalla
Blue: Nothing here is even worth it.. maybe that's where it goes.
Black: Aetherborn, Kalitas, Gearhulk
Colorless: Eldrazi Mimic, Thought Knot, you get the idea
Vehicles: Copter, Fleetwheel, yeah... yeah.

I didn't even include all the sick 3 and 5 drops.

You've gotta pay 14 mana to get seven damage out of it.. which is even worse than a Planar Bridged Gaea.

FTFY. But you're right!

Well.. I was thinking I'm terms of the +1/+1 counter deck where this is supposedly good.. so I wanted to keep it to creatures.

I don't know if it's that black or white...

2 is "Roll player in some decks, but not mandatory"

3 is "Archtype Staple (cards that define an archetype)"

4 is "Good in multiple archetypes"

By the letter of the law, if WB plays well in even a portion of the decks mentioned in card review, you could say it fits here... but I don't think it necessarily fits the spirit of the law - as it has some very high standards (listed examples of 4) to live up to. Hard for me to believe this is on the same level as Liliana and Flagship, where you would (at least for a moment) consider playing them in every deck that has or just mana in general.

If not 4, it could still be a 3 if it single handedly enables a combo deck to rock. Since it's rare, I kinda doubt that happens, but seems possible.

If not 4/3, could easily be a 2 (where I see it right now). Could have a nice roll in several types of decks, but not something that will make or break them.

By that logic it's a 0 Beast, and you may be right. I think there is some value to the card, simply by virtue of the fact that you can't remove it without me getting something from the card, not even exile will stop its self sacrifice.

Sorry Timh, I was writing this response, before reading your post.

I have to say I agree with Fel's rating, "Good in multiple archetypes" seems about right to me, i think it has a home in both crats and a green +1+1 counter deck.

Playing it for 2 to fit your curve in both these decks seems fine, it'll get big fast anyway in +1+1 and can trigger revolt for the couple of guys that need it and sometimes crats just needs a crappy creature you don't mind sacrificing to protect husk. (bonus points that it works with sly Requisitioner!
but then it just gets better later on, topdecking this thing turn 6 isn't terrible in either of these decks can act as a removal spell against small creatures which is useful for husk and can keep a walker off an ultimate or even kill it if you're able to force damage through, i don't think it's an amazing card or anything but it does it's job well and has a home in a couple of decks which is what Fel's definition of four is.