(Bah, reading fail)
I agree, we should just say 'everyone has a million card deck' and go with that.

I think the ban list is kind of pointless but also kind of not this round. I keep finding big holes in it, but it forced me to look for those holes so pros and cons.

I also think because we can't win on turn 1 it's like Mark keeps describing. Some sort of Nevermore disruption card is just going to win the round. It's very hard to have a "fast" deck that can deal with that crap, and banning all the best ones just makes the problem worse.

that would not be a draw, the player going second each time loses due to drawing first (as in real magic)


i probably should have just done this and not have been too abstract

It gets stickier. The first player obviously doesn't draw their entire deck or they'll lose before their first possible Memnite attack, even if the opponent does nothing at all. If the first player leaves exactly one card in their deck (draws the secondlast Memnite but holds it in hand rather than playing it), the second player isn't compelled to leave exactly one... the second player could leave themselves two. Sure, they'd be outnumbered by one Memnite, but they'd win by decking sooner than the one Memnite difference would deliver 20 damage. So just how many Memnites does player 1 leave in-deck to avoid risking being decked before being able to deal lethal? 21? Then player 2 leaves themselves 11, outmemnites the opponent by 10, and swings with +10 memnites twice long before running out of cards.

The first player to play their Glimpse of Nature always loses, so both players won't play it. Thus the player going second each time loses due to drawing first (as in real magic).

Oh, I completely overlooked that you lose to decking in this format.

And fast mana is legal. And the meddler. Oh man. I can just see somebody will blow my mind away with a combo again.

Mark my words. We are all going to lose to Meddling Mage.

There's a poll up!

Marked. Gonna laugh when nobody runs Meddling Mage.

I'm not even sure what you'd run it with in this format. You definitely want to land it on t1 so you need to run 2 mana cards that can provide UW (no one card can do that on t1). So I don't think there's any secondary threat that can be afforded. So just ... Land Mox and a deck full of Mages? It's a deck I guess. Probably scores a bunch of 3s, wouldn't be last. Think this round is too high powered for much more than that though. Seems like on the draw it comes down as a vanilla 2/2 against a deck that already played something far bigger.

It depends how smart people are and how much meta-gaming people do.

There are multiple decks that win on the first turn it is possible to win on. So turn 2 going first and turn 1 going second. These decks will beat anything that tries to win slower than that, unless they are specifically hated against. The best hate, due to the nature of the format, would of course be Meddling Mage, although other things will also work. Then there is a 3rd set of decks that will beat the hate decks but not be able to beat the fastest decks possible.

Thinking about it, the flaw in the Meddling Mage theory might be that people aren't going to figure out the fastest decks and might just try to make a big dude instead.

Today is the last day to submit Collector decks!

Collector Spreadsheet!

I don't understand how Jim's deck wins...Did you forget to check the Oracle text?

Edit: Well, no, even with the original wording it doesn't win...You'd try to draw a card before you had a chance to attack with them.

it wins by attacking with hermit druid for 20 turns

I can't believe I was the only one to remember the Belcher. And somebody even mentioned Nevermore at the beginning of the thread.

Me vs POSV makes me have to do math. Damn you, Admonition Angel.

POSV on play:

1: Tundra1
1: Mox Blinkmoth1 EnergyField
2: Tundra2 MeddlingBear
2: Blinkmoth2; swing with Blinkmoth1 (19-20)
3: Tundra3
3: Blinkmoth3; swing with Blinkmoth1 and 2 (17-20)
4: Tundra4
4: Blinkmoth4; swing with Blinkmoth1 and 2 (15-20)
5: Tundra5
5: Blinkmoth5; swing with Blinkmoth1 2 3 (12-20)
6: Tundra6; AdmonitionAngel
6: Blinkmoth6, no swing
7: Tundra7, exile Energy Field...

From here is where we need to consider options.
If POSV doesn't swing, eventually 26 Blinkmoths allow a swing for 12 and the win, so POSV can't just sit. On T8 he exiles my Mox, but he can never exile blinkmoths (nonnonland).

So POSV needs to swing at least the Angel at me to force me to block. But as I can withstand 3 Angel hits (so long as I never let a Mage hit) and I draw a new chump every turn I believe I can survive and counterattack to eventual win.

7 ... if swing with Angel and Mage:
I activate Blinkmoth1 (with Mox) and Blinkmoth2 (with Blinkmoth6), block both, and can pump the Mage-blocker to at least trade, and then my win is obvious and I chump AA every turn forever (I draw a new Blinkmoth every turn!) and still have attackers to spare.

7 ... if swing with Angel alone:
I let it through. (14-12)
7: Blinkmoth7, no swing
8: Tundra8, exile Mox, same scenario as above, swing with AA, it is again unblocked (8-12)
8: Blinkmoth8, tap Blinkmoth8 to activate Blinkmoth1 and swing (8-11)

From here I think it's pretty clear I can win this. I have 6 untapped Nexus on his turn ... if he attacks with just the AA I just chump, replace, repeat 12 times and win. But if he attacks with Mage too I have enough Blinkmoths now to safely get the kill.

I have a somewhat dumb question...does a land with graft actually trigger animation module? I mean the wording on graft suggests the counter isn't placed kinda like how Clone never actually hits the battlefield as a 0/0. I feel like I'm just splitting hairs here but it would make the math so much easier if it doesn't

Pretty sure the same rule that lets Doubling Season double loyalty on a newly played planeswalker means Animation Module sees the counter being placed on a land that enters with a counter on it.

Yeah, that sounds right.