I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook! The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure. Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.
Joined: Oct 19, 2015 Posts: 2220 Location: Homestuck rehab center
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Spoiler
I'd have no problem voting Yea for the parts before and after Sigdrifa's tale. The middle part of the tale, the one between the battle's end and the Valkyrie's solitude... it feels like a hail of misery, a storm like the one the ship has to suffer at sea, something you feel you have to see through but it's overly painful and disheartening. That would be a good thing if it had kept me caring for the victims of said misery, but it simply doesn't.
The surviving 'crow' made some of my empathy click, it's a nice touch to say something of each character before they get thrown on the sacrificial slab of the narrative, the tone and the feeling remain constant thorough the whole part of the tale and they sound fitting for the tale, it's only right that the angel remembered all the people that died during that tremendous watch, the encounter with the World Ormr was kinda interesting, and yet I thanked the Joker when Sigdrifa started to wander around getting spat on the face and something changed at last.
But I don't think it could be changed into a less vexing form without losing elements of its tone or function, and I don't feel like I should ban such a fundamental pillar for Aralheim's story from the Archive, so I'll just abstain this time.
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Cecil Gershwin Palmer (Welcome to Night Vale) wrote:
...especially since I read it while listening to it from a text-to-speech program that reads at 189 words a minute. So, about two hours and 17 minutes later...
Okay, so I'm not one who should be talking about length or verbosity. I have more words in the Archive than anybody, I know. But, and I hate to say this because I'm a big fan of your work, I did not enjoy this. The writing style is, as you no doubt intended, reminiscent of olden stories like the Icelandic sagas, but I've never enjoyed that style. Too many linguistic acrobatics for my taste, much of which doesn't add much, in my opinion.
Mostly, though, it's that I agree with Huey. I liked the Framing story and Rani's tale of her encounter with Skoll. Still not a fan of the language, but if this had just been that story, I'd vote Yea and easily. It continues both Rani's story and Marina's, and contextualizes Skoll's power level against the Valkyrie, which is useful for what is very likely the endgame of this story arc. I was cool with that.
And, to a point, I enjoyed the battle between the previous Skoll and the Builder/Valkyrie forces. Basically, up to and including the point where Jorðormr comes is all stuff I liked, despite the language not being to my taste.
But I honestly did not enjoy the trek. It felt like it just kept going. At first, I was assuming based on the scale of destruction you had described, that these were basically going to be the only people left alive on the plane, and this was their story of how they (re)created civilization. But as people kept dropping off (people I had no emotional connection with, I might add) I realized it was more like a survival horror story without the horror. And with the unconventional, long sentence structure and the Elder God thing going on with Jorðormr, it very much struck me as H. P. Lovecraft writing a travel guide. I would literally occasionally scroll down to see how much was left and groan.
Sorry, I know I'm being super-negative here, and I apologize. But when considering what to vote into the Archive and what not to, one of the things I think about is re-readability, as in, how likely am I to reread the story. And, though this may be harsh, I am not interested in rereading The Last Valkyrie section again. It was just way too long and way too hard to get into for my taste.
Now, so that this isn't all negativity, let me mention some things that I really DID like about the piece. I mentioned that most of the deaths didn't really affect me, but there is one major exception that I want to mention. I thought Rig's death was nicely done, and I enjoyed that a lot. Maybe it was because it was so early in the process, or maybe it was just that quiet dignity with which he passed, but I thought that was the best death of the lot, and the most affecting, at least to me.
I also like the concept of cyclical time that underlies the entire thing. Reading between the lines, it sets up a really nice, dark forecast for what is likely about to happen. Skoll is an interesting antagonist, and it's fascinating to see how you are sort of blurring the lines between fantasy literal and fable symbolism. The fact that he has literally eaten a sun before is interesting. I did not reread "The Hunter" before reading this story, so I don't know if that was discussed there in addition to the metaphorical meaning it had in that story, but it's interesting, nonetheless.
I'm also finding myself suspecting that Sigdrifa was not the first of the Valkyries to go through something like this. Something tells me that Brynhildr may once of been the Last, and the First, of the Valkyries.
Anyway, sorry to say, I need to vote Nay on this one. I hate to, since you clearly put a lot of work into it, and it's not as though it's poorly written or anything, but I think the overall effect is not one that I can vote for.
Joined: Sep 22, 2013 Posts: 5700 Location: Inside my own head
Identity: Human
I'm reading through this (it is quite long, but so far, I've been enjoying it), but I have to chime in before I'm done because of this:
Quote:
As they walked single file across a span of slick grey granite no doubt heaved from the sea-floor by Jorðormr's undulations, Rig stopped.
Geology lesson: the sea floor is mostly made if the same compositional rockstuff as granite, but granite cannot form at the sea floor. Basalt is formed from rapidly-cooling magma and is typically black or very dark grey, because of the very tiny crystalline structures that the magma forms. Granite forms from slowly-cooling magma under the crust, where much larger crystalline structures have a chance at forming, often giving that sought-after aesthetic such as for granite countertops.
I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook! The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure. Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.
Joined: Sep 22, 2013 Posts: 5700 Location: Inside my own head
Identity: Human
I'm still working my way through this, but I'm going to cast a vote now because at this point I don't expect the ending is going to change my overall opinions of it. It was a little ways into the Last Valkyrie section, what with having to write down the names and descriptions of characters that appear in works, that I realized what you were doing and that IT WASNT WORKING.
I will mirror Raven and Huey's sentiments on this: the framing of the narrative as a literal narrative by Sigdrifa was interesting, especially given the stylistic choice of language here (not that it makes the actual language easy to parse, but it's at least partially forgivable). In fact, I was getting really into it by the time Ragnarok occurred. However, as I read further into the events that occurred afte Ragnarok, and realized you were doing EXACTLY what I criticized most about Attack on Titan, I began to loathe the story. Similarly to Raven, I at several points would scroll down to see how long until it was over, and despair that I had to sit through I-didn't-know-how-much more. It was worse than a slog, because a slog implies that it was boring. I was actively turned off by that entire section.
The point I last stopped, there were only three left, and again, unless there's something positively deific coming that will make me denounce my faith and hail to you as my new God-King, I doubt my mind will change as I read what remains.
Okay. With an 0-2-0-2 sort of structure going on towards the end of a week, I think it's safe to say we know where this one will be going. Yeah, what do you kids call it today -- 'the bin'? Which in a meta-sense is kind of exciting. It means that the voting process actually works and we don't just blindly approve of things that come from 'respected' members (Presuming of course that I count as a respected member. I'm assuming things all over the place). It's also -- and I've been typing this a lot lately -- interesting to see what works and what doesn't work for different people. I think I talked about this in the thread for "36 Hours" which also went way off where I expected reactions to it to be, but I'm endlessly fascinated by the reactions to my work, what I evoke and why it's evoked. I may or may not secretly be Ludevic. And from that perspective, I'm glad to hear these things. I'm glad to hear WHY somebody dislikes, is made uncomfortable by, or downright hates a piece. Not only is it probably a way to evolve my craft, but it's also just plain interesting in its own right.
What leaves me in a difficult place is how much of this story I need to work to be able to move forward with Aralheim versus how much of it actually DOES work. I think, from the replies you (Luna) and others have given, if I ran a vote for a totally isolated version of Rani's story, it would likely pass, maybe not to acclaim but at least to acceptance. It kind of needs Ragnarok to come out sometime in order to avoid being one huge WTF, but Ragnarok seemed to work for people too. I could keep that.
The problem is that I actually need material from "The Last Valkyrie". Specifically, I need Haraldr and Sindri (Who fall back into the storyline in my current outline), and I want the conversation with Jorðormr (who sort of evolved into a Progenitus-esque Worldsoul creature thanks to this), and... that's all deep enough in that I've got a heck of a snarl in front of me. I think my best idea is to basically cut everything before the ruined, deserted town down to a paragraph or two that sums up to "We started with more than this but lost a hefty portion of our number along the way". the problem with that being that it would badly diminish the characters with actual slow-built character (Kenna and Hrokr) mostly. Like, I wonder if Hrokr even works if we don't have the long term setup of who he is from the first few events along the trail.
I had actually intended something more like that when I was outlining, and went into all the death-by-death beatdown because that was more to Sigdrifa's voice. But it doesn't work as a story (apparently), probably in large part because it's just too damn long. I kinda wish I had let it sit longer before sending it here, so that I could have garnered more commentary and possibly anticipated this outcome, but what's done is done.
I'm open to suggestions.
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"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."
I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook! The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure. Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.
Which in a meta-sense is kind of exciting. It means that the voting process actually works and we don't just blindly approve of things that come from 'respected' members (Presuming of course that I count as a respected member. I'm assuming things all over the place).
I must admit I was a bit afraid of this too. Not specifically about this piece, of course.
(maybe my opinion is not exactly the most informed, but I consider you a 'respected' M:EMber, in more than one interpretation of the word)
Quote:
What leaves me in a difficult place is how much of this story I need to work to be able to move forward with Aralheim versus how much of it actually DOES work. I think, from the replies you (Luna) and others have given, if I ran a vote for a totally isolated version of Rani's story, it would likely pass, maybe not to acclaim but at least to acceptance. It kind of needs Ragnarok to come out sometime in order to avoid being one huge WTF, but Ragnarok seemed to work for people too. I could keep that.
The problem is that I actually need material from "The Last Valkyrie". Specifically, I need Haraldr and Sindri (Who fall back into the storyline in my current outline), and I want the conversation with Jorðormr (who sort of evolved into a Progenitus-esque Worldsoul creature thanks to this), and... that's all deep enough in that I've got a heck of a snarl in front of me. I think my best idea is to basically cut everything before the ruined, deserted town down to a paragraph or two that sums up to "We started with more than this but lost a hefty portion of our number along the way". the problem with that being that it would badly diminish the characters with actual slow-built character (Kenna and Hrokr) mostly. Like, I wonder if Hrokr even works if we don't have the long term setup of who he is from the first few events along the trail.
And that's exactly why I abstained. On one hand, it feels it needs a rework to be more vivid and compelling. On the other, every choice you have done for this piece has a role and a meaning that would be probably lost. I do not envy you.
Quote:
I kinda wish I had let it sit longer before sending it here, so that I could have garnered more commentary and possibly anticipated this outcome, but what's done is done.
I must say, I don't know if the time in the "hall" (seeing this as the tribunal, and the Archive as... well, the archive) would have changed my participation: works with massive word counts tend to put me off until I have a remarkable amount of free time and/or the need to escape from reality unless I'm already very emotionally engaged with the storyline. Both this factors are pretty much random; the Archivist's weekly PM serves as a kick in the backside to induce me to free some time to act as the M:EMber I should be. That's... less than honorable, I know
Quote:
I'm open to suggestions.
As I said, I don't envy you, this will probably be hard. If I come up with any reasonable idea I'll to let you know.
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Cecil Gershwin Palmer (Welcome to Night Vale) wrote:
Joined: Sep 22, 2013 Posts: 5700 Location: Inside my own head
Identity: Human
For what it's worth, you are definitely one whom I hold to a high standard because of how good some of your works have been.
For what it's also worth, I understand why you went with the idea of "these names and people would mean something to Sigdrifa", but just as I compared it unfavorably to Attack on Titan, they mean nothing to us, the readers. Even Hrokr and Kenna, whom you say have "slow-build characters" and whom of course last the longest, have very little character given to them across the piece. Hrokr talks a bit to Sigdrifa and seems to be a leader. That's about it until the big confession scene. Kenna paid an arm and a leg to be at Idavoll (sorry not sorry), gets carried around until they find a crutch, then nothing until she has her Heroic Sacrifice(TM). Even the integration of Kenna with Hrokr and Verdandi is done after the fact, when she's not around to add character to.
The only point that I cared for any of the survivors was the very moment that Sigdrifa had Hrokr in her arms, and that worked perfectly well simply knowing that a) Sigdrifa feels the weight of the broken world is on her shoulders and b) there were two dozen or so individuals under her direct watch that she couldn't save. The vow and pyre was actually really well done, although I couldn't care less for Hrokr himself.
May I'm say I'm glad THAT scene at least worked? Because that was one of the strongest images I had for the whole piece.
Thinking of other solutions, I might rewrite the segment, cutting the starting population down to... Rig, Tofi, Oddr, and the folks who made it conscious as far as the abandoned village, replacing a lot of the extraneous deaths with scenes focused on the still living. Problems being that it would still be at least somewhat long and they'd still 'all' bite it.
_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."
I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook! The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure. Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.
Okay. With an 0-2-0-2 sort of structure going on towards the end of a week, I think it's safe to say we know where this one will be going. Yeah, what do you kids call it today -- 'the bin'? Which in a meta-sense is kind of exciting.
It seems your attitude is leaning toward wanting to rewrite this anyway at this point, so I'm going to make a call here and say this was not accepted, since it's already been up for vote for several weeks.
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