Huh? Of course you are right. I mean that's just like a baseline understanding of the stack. Geistblast is an activated ability, not a triggered ability, you can use it any time it has valid targets.

yeah, it seems really basic to me too. The guy disagreeing with me was a really good and close friend so i didn't know how to argue it properly without insulting him. He wanted me to find it online to prove my point but I told him he was arguing an exception to a basic rule so it's more like he would have to find a special ruling regarding Geistblast since the rules of the game support what i'm doing.

That's not right. If you copy a spell, the copy is unrelated to the original and would be on the stack separately regardless on if the original was targeted by a counter or not.
Doesn't matter on the order really since it works same way both ways, just gotta make sure the counter is still on the stack and unresolved when doing it after the counter is cast.

he's saying that the original gets countered as a response to geistblast. I think Vert is right that Geistblast doesn't work then, right? Would the original fizzle and then Geistblast has no valid target to copy?

Except geistblast has already made a copy by the time a counter can be cast.

False. Geistblast doesn't copy the target spell until the ability resolves. So if you counter original spell in response to the Geistblast ability going on the stack, Geistblast has nothing to copy when it resolves.

The highlighted part is the point. If the counter is cast after the Geistblast trigger, it won't be on the stack when Geistblast resolves, because the counter will resolve first

It doesn't make a copy when the cost of the activated ability is paid. It makes a copy when the ability resolves.

I guess I was figuring the activation is to make a copy that immediately went on the stack. I suppose it's another one of those things where I missed that it needs to go on the stack and target.

that's an easy mistake to make Wright. It's not obvious what exactly is on the stack when the copy spell is cast.

Anyway, that wasn't my question

Think of it like this:

If I have a Rotted Hulk on the battlefield, and I cast Larger than Life, while the pump spell is on the stack, you cast Murder on Rotted Hulk in response.

If the Murder resolves then the Hulk hits the graveyard, and the LTL spell fizzles because of no more legal targets.

#Morg101Basics - Let's get it.

Well I see that but I was looking at it as it's an immediate cost paid action to make the copy, like pay and cast a copy.

right but murder isn't pay 3 mana and kill a creature

it's pay 3 mana

wait for it

....wait for it.


all good?

Ok, kill a creature.

no it's

a) pay , target a creature
b) do you have a response?
c) kill the target

a) cost
b) pass priority
c) resolve

this is how all spells and triggers resolve (unless they have Split Second)

oh shaddap

you're a doll, what do you know anyway

clearly more about magic cards and semantics

inb4 Barney asks what semantics means.

What the hell are semantics and can you wash them out of a blue dress?

Your opponent is probably correct, depending on the exact verbal language and shortcuts involved.

Specifically, resolving the spell goes as follows:

1) Spell is declared, targets are declared, mana is paid, etc. Do all the stuffs, spell goes on the stack. You still have priority.

2) You pass priority to the opponent if you have no responses (to your own spell).

3) Your opponent passes priority back, if they have no responses.

4) Spell resolves.

This is from 608.1. Each time all players pass in succession, the spell or ability on top of the stack resolves.


The key here is that you cannot take any actions after step 2) unless your opponent had a response. If your opponent also passes priority, the spell has already resolved, and it's too late to try to copy it. Also, as a standard shortcut, step 2) is always assumed after a spell goes on the stack unless you explicitly state otherwise. You can tell, because otherwise you'd have to say "...pass priority" after every single action you take in a game, and clearly nobody does that.

As a result, if you want to copy (or counter, or whatever else) your own spell, you must state "Hold Priority" in some form, cast your first spell, and then cast your second spell in response - at which point, you verbally release priority and your opponent gets a chance to respond to the copy. If they have no responses, you regain priority and unless you state otherwise are again assumed to be passing it back at which point they get a chance to respond to the original spell.

Here's an example from an SCG event, where a player holds priority to counter his own spell.

The opponent played an instant in response to his.

Why were you playing Geistblast in standard...