Joined: Mar 18, 2016 Posts: 5359 Location: Anyway the wind blows
Identity: doesnt really matter
Preferred Pronoun Set: to me
Yeah, hexproof is incidental and almost never actually relevant. Chose it for the flash and evasion, it just got the spot over dimensional infiltrator because of the hexproof. Flux is what makes the whole thing really work; deck is significantly worse without it. Ideally use it on rogue, but it's ok on Skyspawner in a pinch. Great to be able to play Valor T4, then drop rogue + flux T5 (or hold flux for surprise defense). Rattlechains, vessel, foundry, and flux are all there for surprise/instant speed pumps.
This is a control based enchant deck I have been working on using sigil, sphinx tutelage, 2 planeswalkers, and 2 angels as win conditions. I axed horribly awry for gideon's reproach and the final copy of telling time. Let me know what you guys think and what changes I should make.
Currently trying to make a spirits deck. This is the current draft that I've yet to test thoroughly because I'm waiting a minimum of 3 minutes on steam for a match. But feedback is always appreciated.
Joined: Oct 31, 2013 Posts: 7350 Location: Newfoundland
You only have 17 creatures, a bunch of spells that target creatures, a creature that makes all those spells more expensive, and sweepers for your own creatures. I'm not sure what to say.
I've actually been able to test this a few times. And Vryn Wingmare is absolutely useless in this deck where Thalia is actually helpful. I've yet to face a scenario where I was forced to use Boardwipe. So that could be dropped as well, giving a total of 4 free slots atm.
The bounce makes this very annoying for people who count on removal. I've seen many times people think that I'm not going to block since my stuff is tapped or be able to counter removal with only 2 mana open.
I'm 5-1 with Valor Blues now. I kept rise from the tides for now
I've gone 4-0 online testing the following version, and am feeling pretty good about it since going 2-2 with previous changes. One of those wins was vs a 100 card deck so I don't know if I should count it, but one was vs a Planeswalker.netdeck. Just ignored the walkers and steamrolled with oversized thopters thanks to an on turn Valor, a pair of Rogues, a flux, and a Foundry. Opp dumped a languish early to Jace's oath that could have caused me problems, but never got a 2nd black source so it was moot anyways. That was my 1st PW matchup with V.Blues, but now I don't think it's as bad a matchup as I originally believed. All my creatures are innocuous individually, so spot removal is largely meaningless. Sweepers are a huge threat, but fortunately all (commonly played) but Radiant Flames require 2 of a color to cast which can be problematic in 4-5 color decks. Declaration in Stone can surely hurt, but having 3 dif token types and flux in a pinch helps mitigate the pain. Not to say I think I'm favored in the matchup (because yeah it was just 1 game), but I do think it's not quite as bad/scary as I initially thought.
The instant speed pop of vessel has been valuable in testing. More evasive tokens to pump is good stuff too. Waffled on Gideon's oath, but settled on 1 copy. Decided against 2 because it's legendary and its tokens are ground based. Liking 2 Vessels more than 2 Oaths. In either case, I like both better than Reinforcements because they're cheaper ways to produce 2 bodies, allowing some opportunities to make additional plays that same turn. Downside is it takes a few spells away that could feed RftT, but I still think I have enough to support a single copy for long game shenanigans.
I've completely ruled out Invocation of Saint Traft. It's just not a good fit in this deck, and I blame it for 1 of the 2 losses in that last round of change testing.
Still waiting to live the dream of having all 3 Valors out. Next time I have the opportunity, I'm not going to pass it up, even if I have a better play and it ultimately costs me the game.
@ The Secret of TIMH
So Barney was talking about this deck and I had intended to build it to check it out. As I was doing so, I had several questions/ comments pop up so wanted to get some feedback first.
I'm just not seeing why Rattlechains is included here. It's a great card but I just don't see the synergy or reason it's included other than a combat trick with valor (I'm likely over looking something obvious). I'm not sold on either Jace in this build. Granted baby Jace can get some potential flashback mileage but how often are games going down this line? Big Jace just seems misplaced. Would love to hear thoughts on their inclusion. Did you try/consider Reflector Mage? Fits the color and essence flux. I personally think that if you have color access to this card, it's usually worth including it. Did you try/consider Collective Effort? Counters aren't great for blink targets but having some beefier threats/tokens for both offense and defense couldn't hurt (especially if you don't hit a Valor). It gives access to enchant removal and another creature removal option (basically covers more options than Reprisal with the exception of being sorcery over instant). It's probably the closest Duels will likely come to Dromoka's Command.
I'm 5-1 with Valor Blues now. I kept rise from the tides for now
I've gone 4-0 online testing the following version, and am feeling pretty good about it since going 2-2 with previous changes. One of those wins was vs a 100 card deck so I don't know if I should count it, but one was vs a Planeswalker.netdeck. Just ignored the walkers and steamrolled with oversized thopters thanks to an on turn Valor, a pair of Rogues, a flux, and a Foundry. Opp dumped a languish early to Jace's oath that could have caused me problems, but never got a 2nd black source so it was moot anyways. That was my 1st PW matchup with V.Blues, but now I don't think it's as bad a matchup as I originally believed. All my creatures are innocuous individually, so spot removal is largely meaningless. Sweepers are a huge threat, but fortunately all (commonly played) but Radiant Flames require 2 of a color to cast which can be problematic in 4-5 color decks. Declaration in Stone can surely hurt, but having 3 dif token types and flux in a pinch helps mitigate the pain. Not to say I think I'm favored in the matchup (because yeah it was just 1 game), but I do think it's not quite as bad/scary as I initially thought.
The instant speed pop of vessel has been valuable in testing. More evasive tokens to pump is good stuff too. Waffled on Gideon's oath, but settled on 1 copy. Decided against 2 because it's legendary and its tokens are ground based. Liking 2 Vessels more than 2 Oaths. In either case, I like both better than Reinforcements because they're cheaper ways to produce 2 bodies, allowing some opportunities to make additional plays that same turn. Downside is it takes a few spells away that could feed RftT, but I still think I have enough to support a single copy for long game shenanigans.
I've completely ruled out Invocation of Saint Traft. It's just not a good fit in this deck, and I blame it for 1 of the 2 losses in that last round of change testing.
Still waiting to live the dream of having all 3 Valors out. Next time I have the opportunity, I'm not going to pass it up, even if I have a better play and it ultimately costs me the game.
@ The Secret of TIMH
So Barney was talking about this deck and I had intended to build it to check it out. As I was doing so, I had several questions/ comments pop up so wanted to get some feedback first.
I'm just not seeing why Rattlechains is included here. It's a great card but I just don't see the synergy or reason it's included other than a combat trick with valor (I'm likely over looking something obvious). I'm not sold on either Jace in this build. Granted baby Jace can get some potential flashback mileage but how often are games going down this line? Big Jace just seems misplaced. Would love to hear thoughts on their inclusion. Did you try/consider Reflector Mage? Fits the color and essence flux. I personally think that if you have color access to this card, it's usually worth including it. Did you try/consider Collective Effort? Counters aren't great for blink targets but having some beefier threats/tokens for both offense and defense couldn't hurt (especially if you don't hit a Valor). It gives access to enchant removal and another creature removal option (basically covers more options than Reprisal with the exception of being sorcery over instant). It's probably the closest Duels will likely come to Dromoka's Command.
elk
Rattlechains is there for the combat trick, an early flying attacker to start chipping life, and an evasive attacker for valor pumped attacks. It's nice to help fake counterspells too. I didn't see a better option in the 2 spot at the time, so that's why it got in.
Both Jace's are there to help dig for valor and attract attention to preserve life total, primarily. Big Jace helps keep gas in the tank if valor is out. That they can help win the game if they ultimate, and provide some utility with bounce, power drain, or spell recursion is gravy and why I took them over straight draw spells.
I tested some with Reflector Mage, but I didn't like the fit. It doesn't jumbo pump valor, attack evasively, kill threats, or help me dig for valor. Fluxs mission is to blink token generators after valor is out - that's a 'you win the game' card when used that way, so I try not to cast it otherwise. I do like the Reflector Mage in general, but didn't like it here.
Collective Effort should probably go in. There might be some other new stuff that can improve the deck; it's still in the SOI version. Been distracted by shiney new toys in the game and a shiney new born in the home eating into me time, so haven't gotten around to updating it yet.
Interested to see what welcome changes you might be able to make
It involves a lot of tapping and flashing. I don't like not having draw power so I included Jayce, but I need a better method for drawing cards because he is too expensive. I think Niblis of Frost and Make a Stand are unnecessary, but I haven't thoroughly tested the deck enough to know what to replace them with (maybe draw power). I think I need more creatures, too.
When it came out I was skeptical about it chances of seeing play, but now I'm starting to seriously consider playing convolute in my azorius aggro lists.
Spoiler
Due to spell shrivel not counting for the 15 blue or insert other color spells objectives.
When it came out I was skeptical about it chances of seeing play, but now I'm starting to seriously consider playing convolute in my azorius aggro lists.
Spoiler
Due to spell shrivel not counting for the 15 blue or insert other color spells objectives.
System.out.println("If it's Azorious then you could probably afford to play the hard counters.");
When it came out I was skeptical about it chances of seeing play, but now I'm starting to seriously consider playing convolute in my azorius aggro lists.
Spoiler
Due to spell shrivel not counting for the 15 blue or insert other color spells objectives.
Joined: May 04, 2016 Posts: 205 Location: Florida Rehabilitation Center for Banjo-related Issues (FloRCBI)
Nice list, it looks very controlly (is that even a word?) and seems to make the same level of denial as the old Esper lists without the cumbersome black requirements. I feel like it will miss Languish, Ob Nixilis, Reignited, and Anguished Unmaking but with Fragmentize at least half of Unmaking is covered.
I've really enjoyed playing with a slightly tweaked iteration of your build, BounceBurnBuff. Control is my favored archetype, and this goes a long way toward helping me fulfill my "Nope, draw, go!" dreams.
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Valor Blues 2.0
