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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:44 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:05 am 
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You should not have created this. It's picking a fight for no reason.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:50 am 
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Agreed - this thread is completely pointless, as is this reply. I'll report both for deletion, keep the childish stuff on WOTC forums.

Please.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:37 am 
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I think the first post makes a valid point. It's especially frustrating if you play 2HG with randoms and end up getting stuck with the 95 card guy most of the time.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:40 am 
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There's a good thread over in constructed with thoughts on the 60/40 card limit rules

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1291

Edit:
And, I think this post really sums it up well - you can substitute 61/60 in place of 41/40

miss_bun wrote:
41 cards is more variable than 40. You have fewer chances to draw the cards you need. Show me a 41 card deck and I'll show you which card to take out. More cards is never the answer.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:48 am 
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Childish, probably. I was bored, and just annoyed at seeing certain unnamed individuals staying otherwise. And calling you Math Nazis if you disagree. That any better?

This is fact, and is here for new members so they can see it as such. Not based on anecdotal and biased data, not based on hours of personal research and the flawed theory of more draw should mean more cards, just cold, hard, painful to accept fact.

I would love to find room for another card or 5 I like, we all would, and sometimes I do it. I don't pretend I'm making the deck anything less than weaker though.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Carstien wrote:
Childish, probably. I was bored, and just annoyed at seeing certain unnamed individuals staying otherwise. And calling you Math Nazis if you disagree. That any better?

This is fact, and is here for new members so they can see it as such. Not based on anecdotal and biased data, not based on hours of personal research and the flawed theory of more draw should mean more cards, just cold, hard, painful to accept fact.

I would love to find room for another card or 5 I like, we all would, and sometimes I do it. I don't pretend I'm making the deck anything less than weaker though.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Sometimes I play more than 60 cards to do some small adjustments in my mana curve.
Then, when I lose, I look at my cards and think "Why are this **** cards in my deck >:( " and I go back quickly to 60 cards :angel:


Last edited by Sacade on Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:28 pm 
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I run 60-64 depending on the deck.
Deal with it.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:38 pm 
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I was playing sideboarded games with CoMD against LoD, and had to side in additional creatures to survive the infinite removal spells. The deck ended up having more than 60 cards, but I think it was right in that scenario. The games tended to be long because of all the removal and the slow nature of the decks, so you ended up reaching the very late game. At that point having an active Eye of Ugin that can search up multiple Eldrazi is actually useful. And if you cut the ramp spells, you will get outraced.

I'm usually playing 60 card decks, but if you have a reason to add more cards, then go for it.
Anyone plays the way they want after all ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:45 pm 
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IMO the only deck capable of running more than 60 cards is chant because of the large amounts of tutors. Otherwise its complete nonsense. Have you ever ran out of cards when running 60?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:50 pm 
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slodice wrote:
IMO the only deck capable of running more than 60 cards is chant because of the large amounts of tutors. Otherwise its complete nonsense. Have you ever ran out of cards when running 60?


Without a mill deck, I've not run out of cards playing at 60 (although I did mill a few people a few times...)

As for running more cards due to tutors...remember, if you add more cards, you're less likely to get those tutors...IMO, it's not a valid argument for this meta.
If you had a deck with a ton of tutors, and alot of specific one-of's...then I could see that argument, but, in DotP, I don't believe we have a deck that fits that criteria.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Criterion?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Chant is a funny deck, because you have tutors that tutor for tutors which in turn tutor a tutor (and perhaps an additional tutor).

Green Sun's Zenith > Fierce Empath > Primeval Titan > Eye of Ugin > Eldrazi

So if you get any card in the chain you're golden.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:20 pm 
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IMO if you know you're playing the CotMD vs LD match-up you should still run 60 cards but should cut some amount of non-threats and side into additional additional eldrazi and other threats/Tutors. This Should increase the threat density and keep the deck consistent. You don't run out of cards you run out of threats so you don't need to run more than 60 cards. The non-threats I would cut would be Tangles first then some combination of ramp and possibly a land or 2 depending on how many you're running. I'll make a deck list of what I would run in this match up shortly.

Edit: I think I would run something like this...

[1v1] "CotMD SB Plan For LD"
A library for the Mul Daya 2014 deck (Chant of the Mul Daya)
60 Cards. 34 nonlands (19 creatures, 15 spells). 26 Lands (25; 1 other).

Land
   1x Eye of Ugin
cost  
   3x Explore
   4x Rampant Growth
cost  
   2x Farhaven Elf
cost  
   3x Oracle of Mul Daya
   1x Harmonize
cost  
   2x Woodborn Behemoth
   1x Plow Under
cost  
   3x Primeval Titan
cost  
   1x Avenger of Zendikar
   1x Gaea's Revenge
   3x Pelakka Wurm
   3x All Is Dust
   1x Tooth and Nail
cost  
   2x Artisan of Kozilek
cost  
   1x Pathrazer of Ulamog
cost  
   1x It That Betrays
:xm: cost  
   2x Green Sun's Zenith

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:26 pm 
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Can't you run all 4 Farhaven Elf as they're excellent against Edicts? Same with Fierce Empath.
The rest looks good to me, maybe add some more Eldrazi.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:26 pm 
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funny..Chant is one I don't ever run over 60.

There is only one deck I think capable of running 70, the rest I stick to 64 or less. That deck is Guardians of Light. 6 draw creatures, 3 tutor creatures, 4 insanely good tutors. Imo, it runs BETTER at 70.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:40 pm 
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@LVD

Good call I forgot about all the edicts cut some of either the explores or rampant growths for them. The point still stands that unless you are being milled don't run over 60 cards just reevaluate which cards are bad.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:53 pm 
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Shadowcran wrote:
There is only one deck I think capable of running 70, the rest I stick to 64 or less. That deck is Guardians of Light. 6 draw creatures, 3 tutor creatures, 4 insanely good tutors. Imo, it runs BETTER at 70.

But if you go to 70 there are now 10 extra cards between you and the card draw. Even if you do get the draw, it now has to trigger an additional 10 times to get you to that card you need.

In fact, since you like using anecdotal evidence, allow me to attempt to use it against you here. I used to play Wizards' Star Wars TCG competitively back in the day, which was very similar to MTG in a lot of ways, including minimum deck size. For a while I got into the habit of building a 60 card deck and then throwing 1 extra card on top. Card draw was plentiful in that game -- really, really plentiful -- and like you I figured it would compensate for having an extra card.

Well, in one tournament I got through to the semi finals and lost the crucial game with that 61st card sitting quite uselessly in my hand. After the game ended I did my usual habit of checking my next 3 draws, and the very first one was a card that would have let me back into the game. If I'd been playing 60 cards I'd have drawn it and at the very least put up more of a fight, if not won. I nixed the 61-card habit then and there and have never looked back.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:58 pm 
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LegenVD wrote:
I was playing sideboarded games with CoMD against LoD, and had to side in additional creatures to survive the infinite removal spells. The deck ended up having more than 60 cards, but I think it was right in that scenario. The games tended to be long because of all the removal and the slow nature of the decks, so you ended up reaching the very late game. At that point having an active Eye of Ugin that can search up multiple Eldrazi is actually useful. And if you cut the ramp spells, you will get outraced.

Here's the flaw. By playing more than 60 cards you ar e effectively cutting ramp spells. For instance, assuming 12 ramp spells, going up to 65 cards is the same as cutting one ramp spell.


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