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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:38 pm 
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I'm still working on a MTG D&D 5E campaign on Zendikar (and other planes as time goes by) and to make certain class alterations, I have considered categorizing the cast of planeswalkers into classes valid in 5th Edition, flavorfully OR mechanically. I can use any help I can get in that endeavor. Currently, the biggest problem is matching Druid (5e) to Druid/Shaman that Nissa and others probably are

Ajani • Barbarian/Cleric/Paladin
Arlinn • Druid?
Ashiok • Wizard/Sorcerer/Warlock
Bolas • Wizard/Sorcerer
Chandra • Druid/Wizard (in the "elemental shaman" kind of way)
Dack • Rogue
Daretti • Wizard
Domri • Druid/Ranger
Elspeth • Fighter/Paladin
Freyalise • Druid
Garruk • Ranger
Gideon • Paladin
Jace • Mystic/Wizard
Karn • ????
Kaya • Rogue
Kiora • Druid
Koth • Fighter?
Liliana • Wizard
Nahiri • Druid/Fighter
Narset • Wizard?
Nissa • Druid
Nixilis • Paladin/Sorcerer/Warlock
Ral • Sorcerer?
Ramaz •
Sarkhan • Druid?
Sifa • ????
Sorin • Sorcerer/Warlock
Tamiyo • Wizard
Teferi • Wizard?
Tezzeret • Wizard
Tibalt • Sorcerer/Warlock
Ugin • ????
Venser • Wizard
Vraska • Rogue
Vronos • Ranger
Xenagos • Bard/Druid?

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:51 pm 
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Here are my suggestions/clarifications.

Ajani • Paladin
Arlinn • Druid (Circle of the Moon)
Ashiok • Wizard/Sorcerer/Warlock?
Bolas • Sorcerer (Draconic Bloodline)
Chandra • Sorcerer (Elemental Bloodline)
Dack • Rogue
Daretti • Wizard (Artificer)
Domri • Ranger
Elspeth • Fighter/Paladin
Freyalise • Druid
Garruk • Barbarian
Gideon • Paladin
Jace • Wizard (Illusionist or Enchanter) (At least until they release a Psionics supplement)
Karn • A Warforged Cleric
Kaya • Rogue
Kiora • Druid
Koth • Fighter (Swordmage)
Liliana • Wizard (Necromancer)
Nahiri • Fighter (Swordmage)
Narset • Monk
Nissa • Druid
Nixilis • Anti-Paladin or Warlock
Ral • Sorcerer (Elemental Bloodline)
Ramaz •
Sarkhan • Druid
Sifa • ????
Sorin • Vampire Fighter (Swordmage)
Tamiyo • Bard
Teferi • Wizard
Tezzeret • Wizard (Artificer)
Tibalt • Warlock
Ugin • ????
Venser • Wizard
Vraska • Rogue
Vronos • Ranger
Xenagos • Bard

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:18 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
Here are my suggestions/clarifications.

Ajani • Paladin
Arlinn • Druid (Circle of the Moon)
Ashiok • Wizard/Sorcerer/Warlock?
Bolas • Sorcerer (Draconic Bloodline)
Chandra • Sorcerer (Elemental Bloodline)
Dack • Rogue
Daretti • Wizard (Artificer)
Domri • Ranger
Elspeth • Fighter/Paladin
Freyalise • Druid
Garruk • Barbarian
Gideon • Paladin
Jace • Wizard (Illusionist or Enchanter) (At least until they release a Psionics supplement)
Karn • A Warforged Cleric
Kaya • Rogue
Kiora • Druid
Koth • Fighter (Swordmage)
Liliana • Wizard (Necromancer)
Nahiri • Fighter (Swordmage)
Narset • Monk
Nissa • Druid
Nixilis • Anti-Paladin or Warlock
Ral • Sorcerer (Elemental Bloodline)
Ramaz •
Sarkhan • Druid
Sifa • ????
Sorin • Vampire Fighter (Swordmage)
Tamiyo • Bard
Teferi • Wizard
Tezzeret • Wizard (Artificer)
Tibalt • Warlock
Ugin • ????
Venser • Wizard
Vraska • Rogue
Vronos • Ranger
Xenagos • Bard
As for Psionics-- http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/feature ... 3-take-two

Also, I figured Sorin would be a Favored Soul Sorcerer. What is the source for Elemental bloodline?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:24 pm 
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Also, I figured Sorin would be a Favored Soul Sorcerer. What is the source for Elemental bloodline?
There's two or three of them on the DM's Guild Website free for download. Granted, opening up that source will give you a million custom classes and enough normal class specializations to easily cover all of these 'walkers. (Quality may vary, but WotC has pretty much ceded development to its players to cut costs.)

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Last edited by AzureShade on Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:25 pm 
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Sorin is a knight. It's kinda of impossible to deny at this point, considering the aesthetics.

Full endorsement for bard!Xenagos on my part.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:39 pm 
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Sorin is a knight. It's kinda of impossible to deny at this point, considering the aesthetics.

Full endorsement for bard!Xenagos on my part.
As a knight, doesn't that make him a paladin?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:48 pm 
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Sorin is a knight. It's kinda of impossible to deny at this point, considering the aesthetics.

Full endorsement for bard!Xenagos on my part.
As a knight, doesn't that make him a paladin?

Only if you choose neutral with a negative energy alignment. He's a weird place where he created and is the source of the deity's power.

I'd be willing to give my general opinions, but unfortunately I'm not interested in 5th edition so everything us provide would be from the lens of pathfinder.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:18 pm 
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Downside is, I'm more inclined towards Pathfinder, but I feel it would be more genuine with D&D.

And saying he's a Warlock with a Fiend as a patron, that's a bit iffy as well, since in a way, a demon provided the ritual, an angel's essence was used, and vampirism was born, so it's a bit unclear, though Favored Soul Sorcerer, or some "dark but not evil" Paladin would best fit his character at this time.

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:22 pm 
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Downside is, I'm more inclined towards Pathfinder, but I feel it would be more genuine with D&D.

That would be true of 3rd edition, but both 5th and pathfinder are just derivatives of 3rd edition anyways.
All of pathfinder is basically backwards compatible with 3rd edition, so I'll still make up the list, but it will have to wait until I'm off work at least.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:44 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Downside is, I'm more inclined towards Pathfinder, but I feel it would be more genuine with D&D.

That would be true of 3rd edition, but both 5th and pathfinder are just derivatives of 3rd edition anyways.
All of pathfinder is basically backwards compatible with 3rd edition, so I'll still make up the list, but it will have to wait until I'm off work at least.
The Plane Shifts are geared towards 5th edition, so that's the material I'm using. Hopefully 5th does a little catching up when it comes to character variety.

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:17 pm 
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Well, I'm home now, so as promised, the Pathfinder classes I'd use for the various walkers.
Nominally, you could strip some of these down for 5th ed since it's basically just an anemic version of 3.5

Ajani • Paladin
Arlinn • Cleric (her deity might have changed, but she's put a lot of levels into cleric)
Ashiok • Mesmerist/Summoner
Bolas • No player class needed. He's already an ancient wyrm, that comes preloaded with spell like abilities.
Chandra • Sorcerer (Elemental Bloodline)
Dack • Occultist
Daretti • Alchemist (it's not an ideal fit, but it feels more in line than wizard)
Domri • Barbarian (he's got crap str stats, but it's appropriate. In fairness though, I just hate him.)
Elspeth • Cavalier
Freyalise • Druid/Wizard (she started in the wizard class. Those spells never really went away.)
Garruk • Ranger (he's got a lot more Ranger skills than Barabarian. It's just a huge Str score.)
Gideon • Cavalier
Jace • Psychic/Mesmerist
Karn • Medium (for flavor reasons mostly)
Kaya • Inquisitor (undead focus)
Kiora • Summoner
Koth • Brawler (Fighter/monk hybrid)
Liliana • Arcanist (wizard/sorcerer hybrid)
Nahiri • Magus (there's no really good choice for her. All her demonstrated skills are oldwalker level crazy)
Narset • Monk
Nissa • Hunter (druid/ranger hybrid)
Nixilis • Demon kind of overrides the need for a class. Same as with Bolas, the base creature comes loaded to the 9's.
Ral • Sorcerer/Alchemist
Ramaz • Oracle
Sarkhan • Shaman (Oracle/Witch hybrid)
Sifa • Bloodrager (barbarian/sorcerer hybrid)
Sorin • Paladin
Tamiyo • Investigator (alchemist/rogue hybrid)
Teferi • Arcanist
Tezzeret • Wizard (Artificer)
Tibalt • Investigator
Ugin • Dragon again. Though probably a weird planar variant.
Venser • Sorcerer (it was a natural talent to blink stuff. Everything else was non magical engineering)
Vraska • Slayer (rogue/ranger hybrid)
Vronos • Inquisitor (also lol Vronos)
Xenagos • Bard

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:13 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Well, I'm home now, so as promised, the Pathfinder classes I'd use for the various walkers.
Nominally, you could strip some of these down for 5th ed since it's basically just an anemic version of 3.5

Ajani • Paladin
Arlinn • Cleric (her deity might have changed, but she's put a lot of levels into cleric)
Ashiok • Mesmerist/Summoner
Bolas • No player class needed. He's already an ancient wyrm, that comes preloaded with spell like abilities.
Chandra • Sorcerer (Elemental Bloodline)
Dack • Occultist
Daretti • Alchemist (it's not an ideal fit, but it feels more in line than wizard)
Domri • Barbarian (he's got crap str stats, but it's appropriate. In fairness though, I just hate him.)
Elspeth • Cavalier
Freyalise • Druid/Wizard (she started in the wizard class. Those spells never really went away.)
Garruk • Ranger (he's got a lot more Ranger skills than Barabarian. It's just a huge Str score.)
Gideon • Cavalier
Jace • Psychic/Mesmerist
Karn • Medium (for flavor reasons mostly)
Kaya • Inquisitor (undead focus)
Kiora • Summoner
Koth • Brawler (Fighter/monk hybrid)
Liliana • Arcanist (wizard/sorcerer hybrid)
Nahiri • Magus (there's no really good choice for her. All her demonstrated skills are oldwalker level crazy)
Narset • Monk
Nissa • Hunter (druid/ranger hybrid)
Nixilis • Demon kind of overrides the need for a class. Same as with Bolas, the base creature comes loaded to the 9's.
Ral • Sorcerer/Alchemist
Ramaz • Oracle
Sarkhan • Shaman (Oracle/Witch hybrid)
Sifa • Bloodrager (barbarian/sorcerer hybrid)
Sorin • Paladin
Tamiyo • Investigator (alchemist/rogue hybrid)
Teferi • Arcanist
Tezzeret • Wizard (Artificer)
Tibalt • Investigator
Ugin • Dragon again. Though probably a weird planar variant.
Venser • Sorcerer (it was a natural talent to blink stuff. Everything else was non magical engineering)
Vraska • Slayer (rogue/ranger hybrid)
Vronos • Inquisitor (also lol Vronos)
Xenagos • Bard
Nice! I agree with most, though wouldn't Chandra be a Shaman and choose Flames? Problem I'm hitting mostly is the idea of neglecting so many class features due to them not applying. While I'm not forcing players into being templated from Nissa, if characters like Nissa and Kiora (tho maybe Kiora's not a druid, but just a summoning-type wizard) don't change into animal forms, that's no less than 3 major class features ignored. I intend to alter Wild Shape into something that instead creates something I can only assume is meant to be called an Umbra (Totem Armor) but while that totally could apply to the average Zendikari druid, Nissa doesn't do that either. What's a good solution? I'm sure I may run into similar problems with other established characters, but for now Nissa the Wildshape-less Druid is causing me troubles.

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:28 pm 
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Nice! I agree with most, though wouldn't Chandra be a Shaman and choose Flames?
in this context, definitely not. Shamans are a spiritual class, literally. Chandra's flames are from herself. If anything else, she'd be a kineticist specializing in fire.

Quote:
Problem I'm hitting mostly is the idea of neglecting so many class features due to them not applying. While I'm not forcing players into being templated from Nissa, if characters like Nissa and Kiora (tho maybe Kiora's not a druid, but just a summoning-type wizard) don't change into animal forms, that's no less than 3 major class features ignored.

well that's why I chose Hunter and Summoner for those two. Neither use Wildshape, but have some of the right mechanics for the character as they are.

Quote:
Nissa doesn't do that either. What's a good solution? I'm sure I may run into similar problems with other established characters, but for now Nissa the Wildshape-less Druid is causing me troubles.

Hunter focuses on the animal companion and working in conjunction with it, not having a wild shape at all.
There's a archetype in one of the books that lets you choose plant beings instead of an animal, so I'd apply that template to it.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:59 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Nice! I agree with most, though wouldn't Chandra be a Shaman and choose Flames?
in this context, definitely not. Shamans are a spiritual class, literally. Chandra's flames are from herself. If anything else, she'd be a kineticist specializing in fire.

Quote:
Problem I'm hitting mostly is the idea of neglecting so many class features due to them not applying. While I'm not forcing players into being templated from Nissa, if characters like Nissa and Kiora (tho maybe Kiora's not a druid, but just a summoning-type wizard) don't change into animal forms, that's no less than 3 major class features ignored.

well that's why I chose Hunter and Summoner for those two. Neither use Wildshape, but have some of the right mechanics for the character as they are.

Quote:
Nissa doesn't do that either. What's a good solution? I'm sure I may run into similar problems with other established characters, but for now Nissa the Wildshape-less Druid is causing me troubles.

Hunter focuses on the animal companion and working in conjunction with it, not having a wild shape at all.
There's a archetype in one of the books that lets you choose plant beings instead of an animal, so I'd apply that template to it.
Well I'm using 5th Edition D&D in conjunction with Plane Shift: Zendikar atm, and 5th Edition is very rudimentary with classes atm (presumably that's supposed to be a good thing?) there's only Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, and Warlock. And recently Mystic (psionics user) thanks to Unearthed Arcana. Nissa definitely fits Druid flavorfully, but with SUCH a focus on Wild Shape, she doesn't do much with it. So while realistically I think she's a Druid with some Ranger skills, she might as well be a Ranger with some Druid skills, or not even a Druid at all, unfortunately. Considering VERY few MTG creatures/characters (even ones labeled as druids) actually turn into animals, the Druid class is basically moot.

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:15 pm 
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Well, druid means something completely different in the two systems. It'd be more accurate to call MtG druids clerics by DnD standards. The portfolio would just be focused on Gaea esque figures.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:49 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
Well, druid means something completely different in the two systems. It'd be more accurate to call MtG druids clerics by DnD standards. The portfolio would just be focused on Gaea esque figures.
Hmm, I've seen that said before, like a godless Cleric of the Nature Domain (or Tempest I guess. I like Pathfinder's selection of Domains better) so then is Gatewatch!Nissa a godless Nature Domain "Cleric of Zendikar", or a Beast Master archetype Ranger? For her role as an NPC, I figure she'd need access to higher level spellslots + Conjure Elemental and just make Ashaya a unique Elemental companion/familiar bonded with Nissa via DM storytelling.... Of course for a Plane Shift: Zendikar campaign, I dont want to disallow playable Druids, but I don't want Wild Shaping Druids.... perhaps replace Wild Shape and associated class features with Pathfinder's "Nature Bond" and make a "Circle of the Umbra" or something for emulating Totem Armor magic, and redefine Chandra's concept of a "shaman" simply as a Wizard who learned a lot of fiery spells.

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:22 am 
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Ajani • Cleric, War or Life Domain
Arlinn • Cleric, Nature or Light Domain, with Lycanthropy OR Druid, Moon Circle (but the former seems most accurate)
Ashiok • Warlock, Great Old Ones Pact
Bolas • Wizard, Enchantment or Divination Specialization
Chandra • Sorcerer, Edited Storm Bloodline
Dack • Rogue, Thief
Daretti • Wizard, Artificer Specialization
Domri • Druid, Land Circle
Elspeth • Paladin, Oath of Devotion
Garruk • Ranger, Hunter (Can't summon but I think this is best fit without getting into multiclassing)
Gideon • Paladin, Oath of Devotion
Jace • Wizard, Illusion or Divination Specialization
Karn • Classless, maybe
Kaya • Rogue, Assassin
Kiora • Druid, Land Circle
Koth • Druid, Land Circle
Liliana • Wizard, Necromancy Specialization OR Cleric, Death Domain
Nahiri • Druid, Land Circle
Narset • Monk, Way of the Open hand or of the Four Elements (not sure if she mainly does martial stuff or if she is more spellcasty)
Nissa • Druid, Land Circle
Nixilis • (I don't really get what he can do specifically.)
Ral Zarek • Wizard, Evocation Specialization
Sarkhan • Sorcerer, Draconic Bloodline
Sorin • Paladin, Oath of Vengeance
Tamiyo • Wizard, Divination Specialization BUT let me throw you for a loop, Bard, School of Lore
Tezzeret • Wizard, Artificer Specialization
Tibalt • Warlock, Fiend Pact
Ugin • Wizard, Evocation? Specialization (based on his apparent channeling of colorless mana to do all sorts of weird stuff)
Venser • Wizard, Conjuration Specialization
Vraska • Rogue, Assassin Specialization
Xenagos • Bard, School of Satire? OR Warlock, Fey Pact


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:38 am 
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so then is Gatewatch!Nissa a godless Nature Domain "Cleric of Zendikar", or a Beast Master archetype Ranger? For her role as an NPC, I figure she'd need access to higher level spellslots + Conjure Elemental and just make Ashaya a unique Elemental companion/familiar bonded with Nissa via DM storytelling....
Well if you are using the 'Walkers as NPCs only, why are you bothering to give them classes? Just build them like Monsters and give them whatever they need to get the job done.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:34 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
so then is Gatewatch!Nissa a godless Nature Domain "Cleric of Zendikar", or a Beast Master archetype Ranger? For her role as an NPC, I figure she'd need access to higher level spellslots + Conjure Elemental and just make Ashaya a unique Elemental companion/familiar bonded with Nissa via DM storytelling....
Well if you are using the 'Walkers as NPCs only, why are you bothering to give them classes? Just build them like Monsters and give them whatever they need to get the job done.
Mostly for fluff, I want them to seem like any other characters if and when they appear, and if I look at it this way, with Nissa for example here, if the 1-2 characters I think could be played as druids can't play anything like that, then that reveals there is need of a little change. In this case, it did reveal that no matter who, I don't want Wild Shape as a Druid class feature in my campaign, even if Nissa would have other class fratures to ignore it, whether it be Druid+Ranger, Nature Cleric+Ranger, or Nature Cleric+Druid, she could be played as if she didn't have it, but that still revealed the fact that Wild Shape Druids don't fit in my canpaign. Only on Zendikar do I even have a viable optional replacement with a Totem Armor "summon animal aura" spell-like ability feature. The other classes can probably just be played and flavored however, but Wild Shape has to go.

I felt like this thread deserved a prequel asking "In-canon, what can these characters do with magic and such?"

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:18 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
so then is Gatewatch!Nissa a godless Nature Domain "Cleric of Zendikar", or a Beast Master archetype Ranger? For her role as an NPC, I figure she'd need access to higher level spellslots + Conjure Elemental and just make Ashaya a unique Elemental companion/familiar bonded with Nissa via DM storytelling....
Well if you are using the 'Walkers as NPCs only, why are you bothering to give them classes? Just build them like Monsters and give them whatever they need to get the job done.
Mostly for fluff, I want them to seem like any other characters if and when they appear, and if I look at it this way, with Nissa for example here, if the 1-2 characters I think could be played as druids can't play anything like that, then that reveals there is need of a little change. In this case, it did reveal that no matter who, I don't want Wild Shape as a Druid class feature in my campaign, even if Nissa would have other class fratures to ignore it, whether it be Druid+Ranger, Nature Cleric+Ranger, or Nature Cleric+Druid, she could be played as if she didn't have it, but that still revealed the fact that Wild Shape Druids don't fit in my canpaign. Only on Zendikar do I even have a viable optional replacement with a Totem Armor "summon animal aura" spell-like ability feature. The other classes can probably just be played and flavored however, but Wild Shape has to go.

I felt like this thread deserved a prequel asking "In-canon, what can these characters do with magic and such?"


Can't Sarkhan Wild Shape into a dragon?


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