Huh, I could have sworn I've seen people get blown out trying to cast that card, but you're right it is part of the cost. Must either be remembering a counter blowout or be thinking of a different card... I guess either way, the counter/draw go control decks should fair better against it

Probably just crossing wires with something else. I know killing a creature the opponent is trying to cast Angelic Destiny on is <<Italian Chef kissing fingers gesture>>

Divine, after posting my esper mill deck and getting some valuable suggestions I dropped the mill and added counters. The deck is pretty similar to yours, but it's creatureless and I run take inventory x4 (dirt cheap). In a creature removal heavy meta, how do jace, avacyn and disciple perform for you? I run 1x more blessed alliance, 1x more murder and 1x more broken concentration besides the 4x TI in place of Comparative analysis.

This build is amazing, I commend you.
Murder > Grasp puzzled me first, but seeing how the metagame shapes up to be more control-oriented it totally makes sense. I also like you going back to 2 Blessed Alliance, as that card gets worse if you have multiples in hand.

I'll maybe adjust the deck more once I played with it a bit more, but for now my only change to this list is that I run an extra Swamp over one Island to hit BB more consistently (all of the Black cards require double black except for Sorin and Anguished Unmaking) and I believe that is debatable (maybe that slot should be a Submerged Boneyard)

They all perform great. If one has a weakness, it's Avacyn, but she has sneaky value. She's a great end-of-turn play to pressure Planeswalkers, she can trade out for a creature if necessary, and if she hits the board EOT and your opponent lacks instant speed removal or the mana to cast it, I can protect her while she ends games. I mean, what's her worst case scenario? She hits the board EOT, gets Grasp'd, I lack any counters, and she's gone. Okay. I'm really no worse off.

But she's an all-star in matchups vs. counter decks, because she needs to get dealt with. I cast her, they have to counter her or put themselves on a relevant clock. Then they are tapped out, I untap, and I slam Gideon/Ob/Sorin all over their faces.

Jace just ideally gets down super quick and, like Lili, if she goes unchecked and flips, she breaks games open.

Disciple is probably the strongest, truest win con in the deck. If she hits the board with mana open, she ends games basically immediately. The only true answer for her is Ulamog. And she can shimmy around so much removal just by pumping up (avoids Languish, fizzles Reave Soul, etc) and of course her Rune Snag counter ability. And she's above Horribly Awry range, which is relevant in at least one tourney matchup.

Basically each one of them is an instant must-remove with both Disciple and Avacyn giving instant value. And Jace is a 2-drop, a looter, a card recursion method, etc. They all just ooze value.

The Esper List that I was close to running in steam tournament before switching to Abzan. I like Divinevert's list and wish you good luck for the tournament, you are very fortunate to avoid espers hard matchups like mono red and vamps that are in the steam one haha. Funnily enough my list hasn't changed much from the one I posted back on page 22, for the tournament I would have found space to include 1 Felidar Cub & Westvale Abbey.

Played 2 games here with it vs 5c Walkers & UR Mill - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfhK3pGqeuA

Creature(4)
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 x Disciple of the Ring
1 x Archangel Avacyn
1 x Linvala, the Preserver

Instant(19)
2 x Blessed Alliance
3 x Telling Time
2 x Grasp of Darkness
1 x Murder
2 x Scatter to the Winds
3 x Spell Shrivel
1 x Broken Concentration
2 x Anguished Unmaking
1 x Comparative Analysis
2 x Confirm Suspicions

Sorcery(6)
2 x Declaration in Stone
2 x Languish
2 x Planar Outburst

Planeswalker(5)
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 x Sorin, Grim Nemesis

Land(26)
2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Prairie Stream
3 x Plains
4 x Island
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Swamp
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Isolated Chapel
1 x Forsaken Sanctuary
4 x Evolving Wilds

Because secretly, he rebuilt The Deck. Just missing some Mana Drains and a set of Power, but that's nitpicking.

Cards were ridiculously powerful back then haha!

Hey, divine...

Outstanding deck! I had one idea that I wanted to get your opinion on. Do you think there's a way to jam in a Tamiyo's Journal or two? The only spot I could even think about giving up would be the Comparative Analysis. I understand the instant speed draw, as you're holding mana untapped for instant responses, but I'm wondering if it might be worth squeezing one in.

Hard to make this deck 'win more' but the journal could help 'win faster' grabbing missing pieces if necessary, or otherwise having consistent instant draw through clue sacrifice - it's just the cost of 5, and the fact that it can't be cast at instant speed that's the big drawback. (Oh, and subject to removal). By the time you can lay it down and protect it with a counter, we're at turn 8...too slow?

Thoughts?

I'm not DivineVert, but I'll weigh in on this question:

for a permission based deck, it already has alot of 5+ drops, and the only ones which do not act as a wincon t5 are the Planar Outbursts, you can technically say that Confirm Suspicions isn't a wincon, but you'd be wrong It probably is the best wincon the deck has .

All the non outburst 5 drops have this dual nature : They solve a problem, and demand an answer from your opponent quite rapidly to not get buried in card advantage as the game goes on.

_ Jace draws a card per turn, but can also bounce dudes to answer problematic creatures for awhile the turn it comes in play. Opponent still has to find an answer to this permanent.
_ Obnixilis same, but can deal with a problematic creature permanently the turn it comes in play. Opponent still has to find an answer to this permanent
_ Sorin, same as above.
_ Suspicions deals with a problematic spell upon cast, then draws 3 cards in the following turns, at your leisure.
_ Disciple is a card that often needs alot of recources for your opponent to deal with, buying you time and recources, and lategame acts like a must-kill immediately or die in 2/3 turns threat.
_ Avacyn is a card that can deal with a creature at instant speed, and then present a 'must-kill' threat.


_ Journal does NOTHING when it comes in play, you literally take your turn off when you play this without impacting anything, and needs 3 turns before it does anything more interesting than ONE of the abilities of the 3 walkers.


Basically its a decent card, but it's very slow, and the amount of scenarios where you need to use this tutor effect and this veeery slow extra inevitability pale compared to the number of times you'd rather just have had that second Planar Outburst (which would be the cut I would consider if I were to include one) in the deck. The only drop that's comparably bad at 5 is Disciple, but if you UNTAP with Disciple, alot of decks will have serious trouble dealing with it. Journal gives you a clue t6

There are a few tapout lists, maybe some with some artifact synergies, where I think the card is much more interesting.


TLDNR : Too narrow and (initially) low impact to consider a reliable card in a permission deck

Yeah, if this deck gets to turn 5+ and you have the time to slam the Journal, then you're probably already good. I'd rather have comparative because it's instant and I can use it if the opponent plays a card not worth countering

The thing about Journal though is that you're not playing it T5. You're playing it T8+ with protection up, and it goes well with Supisions, back to back.

But at turn 8+, I could play Disciple and win. And Suspicions is already amazing as a draw 3. Feels win more to me

Yeah, Journal seems to be win-more, the extra card draw seems Overkill on that Front considering I often end up not Casting Analysis late-game (I mostly have enough card advantage).

That being said, if I end up cutting any card in the list, it would be Analysis. I have been considering some replacements, but haven't found tbe correct one yet.

Its an MVP in mirror matches tho. I suspect it will be very important vs CGB this week

Thanks for the replies. Thinking along the same lines, I was just thinking maybe the card selection with three clues might allow you to close out the game earlier, but you're right - if you're 8 mana deep by the time you lay it down, you're probably ahead by then anyway. It's so frustrating sometimes when you know the deck has all the tools but you're slightly behind, desperate to remove a planes walker or something like that...I don't know how many times I'm wishing I had Blessed Alliance in hand facing a 4/4 Lambolt on t3.

One more question...thoughts on finding a spot for Ulamog? Just win-more? Not a fan of 10 mana to exile 2? If you were going to squeeze him in...where would he be? One of my favourite plays in Duels is Sorin drawing Ulamog...gives me so much pleasure...

In tap out control, then maybe; I'm not a fan of him in draw go. Nor Esper either; I prefer him in Abzan if anything.

Ulamog is playable, but not great. It shines in the mirror as removing 2 PWs as well as eating up a removal/counterspell, against many other decks he's win-more as if you get to 10 mana you're probably in good shape anyway.

An Esper Control deck that works? OK, how about this one:

Instructions:
While keeping in mind you will need white mana more than the other two colors early in the game; having all three colors on the battlefield by the fifth land drop (or all three colors untap with the sixth land drop) is ideal here. All you need to do with this deck is always play aggressively and always prioritize putting cards in exile early in order to gain and keep the Nullifier's terms to counter target spells ready when the time comes.

P.S.
I think the Queller/Nullifier combos are boss in this flying weenies control deck but hearing that you guys here agrees with this side-note observation would feelsgoodman.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flying Under Esper's Skies. (60 cards. Control-Aggro)
Creatures
2x Selfless Spirit
2x Rattlechains
3x Pilgrim's Eye
2x Bygone Bishop
2x Nebelgast Herald
2x Kindly Stranger Wasteland Strangler
2x Spell Queller
2x Reflector Mage
3x Thunderclap Wyvern
2x Ulamog's Nullifier

Others
3x Essence Flux
2x Horribly Awry
2x Declaration in Stone
2x Always Watching
3x Spell Shrivel
2x Anguished Unmaking

Lands
4x Plains
4x Island
3x Swamp
2x Westvale Abbey
2x Drowned Catacomb
2x Isolated Chapel
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Foundry of the Consuls
3x Evolving Wilds
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

and sure, all P.E.A.C.H.-like comments from the community here are always welcome.

So.. how do you plan on getting Kindly Stranger active with that list? You have to use a Declaration, or have an Always Watching get blown up.. otherwise it's creature, land (if you hit evolving wilds), instant, and... Pilgrim's Eye? If you're gonna be exiling stuff.. I'd be looking at Wasteland Strangler in that spot. It's a great aggro/control card.

@Vert So far I'm like a million wins/3 losses with your deck. I wish I could speed up the mana in many matches.. but it ends up OK almost every time. On the draw vs aggro is a bish tho.. like, a real bish. If there were anything I'd change.. it'd be less tapped lands, but I know you need the fixing.